Game of thrones: episode 9

[alexandral]

I loved the episode and am feeling too emotional to write anything coherent.Out of the new characters, I liked Shae (who is long past 18, but otherwise perfect, the trend to make everyone older continues) and I continue to love Bronn. Ros-the-whore seems to have disappeared without a trace, thank you to the old gods of TV. And then there were characters that I hated strong enough for the Russian Amazon in me to rise up and want to kill them all with bare hands (and feed their livers and other parts to the dogs :D).

Wall of HATE:


What has always bothered me is this : why did Joffrey decide to execute Ned? May be there was some explanation in the future books, but I have forgotten it. Unless it is plain and simple "Joffrey is a tyrant and thinks killing people is a good thing to do" which does not seem strong enough. Even Cersei seemed to be surprised, and really, Ned's death was in no way advantageous to her and Joffrey as it meant more war. It meant that Lannister's troops that are positioned against Northerners (who could have gone back to Winterfell if Ned was still alive and contacted them) could have instead travelled to King's Landing to meet the troops of Stannis Baratheon. Plus, killing high lords did not seem to be an everyday thing to do as they usually were imprisoned or sent to the Wall.

One of my personal pet theories is that this was Littlefinger's doing. He said something to Joffrey, hinted at something. Something must have set off Joffrey's madness.

What do you think? What made Joffrey decide to execute Ned?


PS I have taken tomorrow off so that I can make some animated icons. Yes, this is serious!

PS: Possible spoilers in comments

Comments

[bond-girl.livejournal.com]

You know what, you put your finger on the same characterization moment that bothered me last night. Why DID Joff go rogue? I can confirm that there is a passage in a later book where Cersei tells someone that she was blindsided by this and that she couldn't do anything as Joff gave an order in front of half of the kingdom and there was no time window for her to stop this folly. Also, even the unflappable Varys rushes towards the king or Cersei and begs for it to stop but I don't remember Littlefinger moving (need to rewatch, obv!). Some reviews think that Joff was just having a rockstar moment but I disagree. It was a man's move and so far, he has proven himself as a particularly unsecure child who laps up flattery. Also, Littlefinger us the only one who has the motive!

And ikr, I need to get of my phone this morning as my boss starts giving me a side-eye ;) But Westeros politics are srs bsns! LOVE this fandom to the absolute pieces.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think the first time round I thought it was Cersei's doing, but upon re-reading of GoT (there is a moment where Sansa remembers Cersei trying to say something to Joff) I am mystified. I don't think Joff had it in him to think such thing up. Plus he did it in a secretive way (he didn't even tell this to Cersei) which is so unusual for him (momma boy). In so many other scenes he practically says everything that comes into his mind.

And yes, Littlefinger was not moving, he was sm,iling the same smile he smiles on that picture I posted, very satisfied.

hehe! I discussed Game of Throens with our Big Boss today. He absolutely loves the show.

[kem-viva.livejournal.com]

I think Joff is just a horrible little monster, and its entirely plausible he just hated Ned for trying to keep him from ruling or just simply wanted to kill him because Joff likes killing/torturing people who challenge him in some way. He does it other times as well.

I don't think Cersei had anything to do with it, I always believe her surprise is genuine. Littlefinger might have had something to do with it, but I usually blame Joff in full.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think Joff honestly believed that Ned was a traitor (I don't think he figured out that he is not Robert's son), but What bothers me is that Joff did not say anything to cersei. he was such a mamma by and he seemd to always blurt anything on his mind. Why didn't he blurt out his plan to kill Ned?

We will see, there might be some revelations coming up inthe future books.

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

Joffrey is crazy... and then he sees the crowd: his good people wants Ned's head? Well, let's give it to them!
Cersei is a (ruthless) politician... but Joffrey is just a mad, irresponsible, spoiled; brainless teenager.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I am still holding to my Littlefinger theory, but I guess Joff LIKED IT and Joff WANTED IT.

Also - i have noticed The Hound on the second watch. It was a good moment, when ned was hit with a rock.

[heartshurt.livejournal.com]

I always thought Joffrey did it because he could. I can imagine Littlefinger having a part in it, but Joffrey is just a sick and twisted teenager, and he's king now, so why the hell not have Ned beheaded. He doesn't seem to have a whole lot of insight into the politics of things anyway, so let's have some fun with the power.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think this is what my theory is: joffrey had no clue of any consequences (and if you read the books, some very bad consequences for him personally are coming) , but he just seems to be too stupid to think of this all by himself.

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

I think Joffrey did it because he's a sadistic little fuck, and on some level to assert his power over his mother and all his advisers.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

i thought he was just too stupid for that: to hatch the whole plan, to keep quiet, all by himslef. But even if someone in any way pushed him towards this decision, I am sure that 80% of it is pure Joffrey.

Also, poor actor. he is so young and he starts with this terrible role. He is doing great, but I don't think he is going to get any fans.

[lydzi.livejournal.com]

Oh wait. Isn't that canon? I always believed that Littlefinger was beyond Joffrey in this. I mean like the dagger with Bran and all.

But yes it totally makes sense. I love Baelish because he's a character who make things grow and advance but we all kow how horrible he truly is. He gives little boys to Ser Lyn, he lied about pretty much everything and he's one of the main reason for the destruction of the House Stark. There's no even denying this. Him beyond Joffrey giving his order to kill Ned wouldn't be surprising at all. He's the only who doesn't seem shocked about it. Even Varys runs to plead the king.

I'm so waiting for that wedding with Maergary now. We'll see who's laughing Joff è___é.

I can't with Bolton. I can't. I've never feared so much a character taken from a book since Fenrir in Harry Potter.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think my hate for Baelish increased 10 times this week because I am reading the books now and there there are all those scenes about the poor boys and Jeyne Poole being sold into a whorehouse. And I suddenly rememebred how much I hated him in the books, I forgotten because I liked Aidan Gillen so much.

I'm so waiting for that wedding with Maergary now. We'll see who's laughing Joff è___é.

You made me laugh by this so hard.

Yes to Bolton (and his whole house). And Walder. Kuddos to the show - he was such a creep!

[earenwe.livejournal.com]

I'm of two minds with this. On one hand, I can see Joffrey doing this all on his own regardless of any lack of age, intelligence or cunning the boy is pure and simple a product of an upbringing that wants power and is used to getting it without any question. He had to have known that Ned wanted Tywin to have to answer for his bannerman's actions. Similarly he had to have known that Tyrion had been held by Catelyn Stark. On top of that, in episode 3 ("Lord Snow") he had a conversation with Cersei about disliking and not trusting the Starks
Cersei: "Soon you will sit on the throne and the truth will be what you make it."
Joffrey: "Do I have to marry her?"
Cersei: ".Yes. ...you are my darling boy and the world will be exactly as you want it to be...a good king knows when to save his strength and when to destroy his enemies."
Joffrey: "So you agree, the Starks are enemies."
Cersei: "Anyone who isn't us is an enemy."

I don't think Cersei planted the idea into his head, I think she only confirmed whatever his suspicions about the Starks may have been. He knew the people, and the nobility, loved the Starks and one less Stark to stir up trouble, the better. To boot, Ned did tell Joffrey that he had no claim to the throne and that's a comment that has to stick with you.

I guess my idea is that I think it's totally within Joffrey's capability to do something like this without outside help.

That said, Littlefinger has no love for Ned as he married Catelyn, the girl he loves. If he were to whisper some words into Joffrey's ear I wouldn't be surprised.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Actually, that is a very very good point. I don't think the conversation happened was in the book, but it still was a very revealing one. May be it was included to give more continuity to Joffrey's character.

Plus yes, Joffrey did not understand why he is not the rightful heir (although at that age this was so stupid) , but he understood that ned thinks he is not the rightful heir. And as typical for this kind of people, he did not forget.

I think it would be neat if Littlefinger did something, though.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure Littlefinger pushed Joffrey farther down a path that he was willing to be led down, but I also think that might be my Littlefinger hatred talking, and I have no hard evidence for that. I think Joffrey wanted to show both Sansa (who'd witnessed his humiliation at Arya's hands) and his mother that he wasn't some kid to be told what to do.

The only thing I didn't like about last night's episode was that I don't think the show has shown at all what a great fighter Jaime Lannister is, so given that he will have no further chances to fight, it's not going to be this huge thing when the {SPOILER FOR THIRD BOOK] happens. All anyone who's watched the show knows is that he's good at stabbing kings int he back, throwing kids out of windows and attacking Ned with a superior force. And while all those things are true, they don't even hint at why Jaime is such a prize for the Starks and why no one will consider trading him for two girls (since Catelyn doesn't know Arya is gone.)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I am so glad that you are thinking the same, and yes, this is my hate of Littlefinger talking too. I have almost finished GoT-the-book and on the second reading I notice all these things that I didn't notice during the first reading, like what happened to Jayne Poole and such.

And I agree with you on Jaime Lannister too, and I already ranted about this in cyberducks LJ - I think the scene with Jaime fighting his way through should have been there, as well as him taking part in the Hand's tourney, or at least one of the two . It should have been established that he was the best swrodsman and all-around martial arts person.

EDit: and if anything was not right in this episode, it was not enough Jaime. :D

they don't even hint at why Jaime is such a prize for the Starks and why no one will consider trading him for two girls (since Catelyn doesn't know Arya is gone.)

But isn't he so valuable because he is the only "proper" son of Tywin? As in: the girls don't count as much as the favourite son?

[seven-trees.livejournal.com]

And then there were characters that I hated strong enough for the Russian Amazon in me to rise up and want to kill them all with bare hands (and feed their livers and other parts to the dogs :D).

I wanted to take a flamethrower to Joffrey's face after he ordered Ned's execution right in front of Sansa. Did you not just want to rip that stupid crown off of his head? What a disgusting little shit.

I don't know if Littlefinger was behind the whole thing. That would certainly make more sense than it just being Joffrey crushing anyone who slighted him. Not that I really doubt that Joffrey would do that-- I'm sure sooner or later there will be a scene where he tortures small animals for giggles-- but I think he's old enough to realize that killing Ned would just lead to more war. If he doesn't realize that, he's obviously a lot dumber than I thought.

BTW, how amazing was Ned's death? I've rewatched it over and over and every time I feel like my heart's about to burst. That was so well done. Oh Arya. I was completely spoiled for this, but Arya at the end just about killed me.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

You see, they changed the ages of almost everyone (minus everyones age by 6-10 years and you will get the book age), hence - all the kids and teens seem a lot dumber than they are. Like Joffrey is 12. But still, a King's heir by that age should have had some basic understanding (and there are some serious consequences of Joffrey's acction coming everyone's way). ** think ** There is definitely something we don't know about.

And yes, i didn't joke about Joffrey being a cat killer. What a monster.

Ned's death was amazing. Both Sansa and Arya broke my hert.

[geeklee.livejournal.com]

yes, i think littlefinger was responsible.

i'm just reading through a clash of kings and when tyrion comes to tell cersei their father wants him to act as "hand", he asks cersei all the conspiracy questions. while cersei doesn't say who (i don't think she knows) she does mention that there are people "talking" to joff.

of all the players we've met so far, the only likely candidate is littlefinger. i also think that joff had the sadistic and egotistic tendancy to want to assert himself in this cruel manner.

i know you'll all throw stones, but i am fascinated by littlefinger. he seems to be the mastermind behind everything in king's landing. amazing when you consider his beginnings. i am wondering about his end though. martin seems to prize his type of cunning.

i think we're meant to be sympathetic of him because of how they cast him. his written very unattractively but peter dinlage is anything but.

but then again, so was severus snape/rickman...

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

i'm just reading through a clash of kings and when tyrion comes to tell cersei their father wants him to act as "hand", he asks cersei all the conspiracy questions. while cersei doesn't say who (i don't think she knows) she does mention that there are people "talking" to joff.

oh, thank you for the info! Thsi definitely confirms my suspicion

I find that the further I am in re-reading of the books , the more I rememebr why I hated Baelish so much. It is not the scheming as such (although waht he did to Ned was pretty evil), it is all those mentionings of him selling little boys to whorehouses, and doing the same with Sansa's friend (poor thing).

I also find his character intersting, but I do not find him sympathetic at all. :D

i think we're meant to be sympathetic of him because of how they cast him. his written very unattractively but peter dinlage is anything but.

Do you mean Aiden Gillen - the actor that plays Littlefinger? He is awesome.

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

I'm really cranky that they made Tyrion a fool in regards to the battle, but the death scene was remarkable. Maisie is just an incredible little actress.

As for Joff, I confess I always thought that was him trying to show he was a Man, not a boy controlled by "weak" women. He's young, stupid, cruel and a show-off - a terrible combination. It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that Littlefinger coaxed him along that path, but I think there's plenty in Joff's own pathology to explain it.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I agree that they shifted some "battle prowess" accents, making all Lannisters into fools. But I thought that Tyrion is so awesome already that this didn't matter at all in his case, and that the fact that he was shown to be not good at something added to his character (he was beginning to turn into a wonder-character that can do no wrong).

Take me right, I thought Joff was evil enough to do the deed, but I didn't think he was clever enough to pull this off by himself.

[endlessdeep.livejournal.com]

What do you think? What made Joffrey decide to execute Ned?

Joffrey is the product of inbreeding. Nothing can bring out the crazy like inbreeding. The crowd was calling for it and he wanted to become popular in the eyes of the people.

I boohooed.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

The result = do not have kids from your brother. But in serious, this what worried me all the time, the fact that cersei was stupifd enough to have kids from her own brother (and not just one, but 3).

[failte-aoife.livejournal.com]

I almost believe that it was just Joffrey's desicion (and he might have not talked to Cersei because he only decided it at that very moment...he's crazy enough for that) and that Littlefinger was just as surprised. While he is a scheming bastard he still seems terribly naive when it comes to Catelyn. He might have hoped that a dishonoured Catelyn is thankful for his help once Ned got sent to the wall...he can't have hoped for any chance with a grieveing widow, wanting revenge.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I thought Littlefinger "moved on" from his love for catelyn long long time ago, and now what is left is twisted "if you can't be me, you can't be enyones'" feelings. I also think at this moment of time he is already planning his advancements towards Sansa.

But Joffrey was definitely HAPPY doing it, so even if anyone hinted this to him, this was at least 80-90% himself.

[roboticduck.livejournal.com]

I am late, but all the comments have been great :)

Frey!! I already had my ohnoes face on when Cat was meeting with him because of later events. The actors they are getting are like they plucking them from my mind! I know people have been grumbling about Shae's age/accent/background, but I like her so far.

I may be echoing a few people above, but I think Joffrey was thinking he'd be seen as a strong king that wouldn't put up with any disobedience/disrespect, added to the fact that he's already a bloodthirsty entitled young teenager = disaster. His brashness of course disregards any political foresight, as Cersei's reaction shows. I did not notice Littlefinger's stoneface, I should go back to rewatch!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I like Shae, like few people commented: it is going to be more believable when Tyrion falls in love with her. But I do worry: I think I am going to hate this intelligent version of Shae more because of what is going to happen. She, at least, doesn't have the excuse of stupidity.

I will see how it goes!!!

[lady--croft.livejournal.com]

I think the HBO Shae is an improvement over book Shae. HBO Shae is more credible a match for Tyrion. I would have bought a young, innocent Tyrion being overwhelmed by love towards his first love Tysha but I always found it rather odd that someone so intelligent and to an extent 'jaded' by love would be that attached to Shae who is just so blah. HBO Shae seems to be just as much a player as everyone else in the Game of Thrones. Book Shae never came off as much more than just a girl who using the opportunity to get what she can out of it whereas HBO Shae already looks like she is already calculating far beyond the mere wealth that Tyrion has to offer her. In regards to what happens later on in the Shae/Tyrion relationship, an older and wiser Shae would be held more accountable for her own actions. I'll be curious to see whether HBO Shae instigates/offers her service/assistance rather than being 'compelled' to do so by external forces.

I haven't given much thought to the Joffrey/Littlefinger conspiracy although if anyone whispered the idea in Joff's ear, it would have been Littlefinger. I could see it all being part of his 'master plan'. He is just so deliciously vile.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I qagree. I always wondered how Tyrion managed to fall in love with Shae. but I wonder how the new Shae will play out at the end - The stuipidness was the major excuse for Sahe's betrayal of Tyrion. I think I will grow to hate the new Sahe with passion. she is so intelligent - can't she see that Tyrion is THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD?

The Littlefinger conspiracy is just something that crossed my mind as I was watching the show, but I always thought that Joffrey's decision was somewhat illogical.

[stoopid-silly.livejournal.com]

Totally totally think Littlefinger was behind it! Not like I exactly get his motivations either, but it makes more sense. Plus he's behind every, right!?!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think he just has strange and vile mind, lol. I don't get his motivations beyond "I hate Ned" and "I like girls". :D But he is delish.