mini-rant : War movies, TV shows and fiction about War

[alexandral]

It seems to be generally accepted that War is very important topic, but what can I do with myself? I was fed war movies since the age 0 (in former USSR) and I have grown to be not very keen on the topic as an adult.

The main problem I have with the topic is that any fiction about war usually doesn’t have too much space for women, it is all about men, men, guns, more men and more guns. These men usually keep killing each other for various reasons, and I usually object to the reasons and the killing. I am supposed to feel how heroic they all are and how wonderful the male bonding is, but I usually want to tell them all "stop fighting, guys! Stop!"

Plus usually any war fiction takes a certain side in the conflict depicted, which is sometimes difficult to accept too. We as viewers are supposed to feel the rightness of the cause of the "right" side, but sometimes there is no right side and sometimes the "right" side is also not quite right.

PS: There are few exceptions , of course, especially for olden day wars (before they invented guns, when war was fought beautifully with swords). :D I adored "Generation Kill".

This rant has been forming for few moths: this year is anniversary of the Korean war and there are many Korean war dramas and movies. And on the side note: there is this new highly anticipated Korean war movie, "71-Into the Fire". You know, one of the leads, Kwon Sang Woo age 33, is supposed to play 17-year guy in it?? Why????? They didn’t have any 17 year olds???? He will look like a spy. :D

Comments

[endlessdeep.livejournal.com]

One of the reasons I love Generation Kill as well. It doesn't take sides and it's not all fighting. Sure it's got some rough language and equally rough guys, but when you pull back that rough layer you see that the guys do have thoughts and feelings about everything that is going on.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Absolutely - this is why I think I liked it so much. Also - there was some real beauty about this show, it is even hard to put in words.

[kittyhawk03.livejournal.com]

As someone who does enjoy the occasional war movie, such as the movie 300, I can only say that some things are worth fighting for. Of course, there are plenty of bad war movies, but then there are also plenty of bad romantic comedies, etc.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I quite enjoyed 300 (from a purely shallow POV), but you see, the olden day wars were a little different. :D

[timescout.livejournal.com]

I rather like war films/tv-shows if they are told from the point of view of the solders and/or civilians cought up in the mess and are not too heavily weighted with battles. I don't take sides even if the film/show does, so it doesn't generally bother me. There's nothing glorifying in war itself, it's a brutal and misguided way of solving disputes. In the long run no-one wins.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

The taking sides issue bothers me probably the most, this and the fact that the "winner" is often glorified, importance of the event is often shown from POV of one or another country.

I know you are not a shipper, but one of the things I don't particular like about war movies that they often don't depict too many romantic relationships.

[timescout.livejournal.com]

I don't particularly care for the posturing either but I can generally ignore it. Unless it's really 'up in you face'. The best war moves and shows keep that to the minimum.

Yup, not being invested in romance has it's advantages. :) Lack of romance is not a big obstacle for me, if I like the story it's enough to keep me watching.

Btw, did you notice the little 'gift' I left you @ my LJ? ^^

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Yup, not being invested in romance has it's advantages. :) Lack of romance is not a big obstacle for me, if I like the story it's enough to keep me watching.

The story has to be really REALLY good to grab me without the additional prop of romance. But give me some good romance - and I will watch almost anything. :D

YESSSSSSSSSSSS! THANK YOU SO MUCH. I have been drooling all over it for the main part of this afternoon. :D

[arathesane.livejournal.com]

I think the best war stories, films or otherwise are the ones that are told from the point of view of the soldiers(or the civilians) involved. I don't necessarily mind if a "side" is taken as long as all sides are portrayed as human. Or if they are not, it is somehow understood that viewing one side as dehumanized is a consequence of war itself, not that a particular group of people is less-than-human.

Heh, that was all a bit circular, but I think you can get what I mean.

Generation Kill is a great example because while Simon and Burns were both strong opponents of the war in Iraq, they didn't make a propaganda series. It shows different sides and points of view, and takes care to try to be pretty accurate. It also shows what the characters were thinking and feeling. I think because they took such care you come away with thinking more critically about this particular war than you do when see something that is explicitly either pro- or anti- war.

Oh one thing, I don't feel like warfare that involved swords (or bow and arrows or clubs or anything non-mechanized) was ever beautiful. There have been beautiful films made that feature sword fighting but war itself has always been brutal. Not that you were arguing that it wasn't brutal or awful but I don't like it when people romanticize any kind of war.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I try not to think too much about present day wars , when I start thinking seriously, I really don't like any sides involved. In the past, there were wars where you could draw the right/wrong line a bit clearer, but still - usually doing this is very hard.

I think because they took such care you come away with thinking more critically about this particular war than you do when see something that is explicitly either pro- or anti- war.

I absolutely agree with you, and as with any fiction about important topics, this is what I like the most - when there is no-one telling me (even subconsciously) what to think. And yes, this is what is good about GK.

Not that you were arguing that it wasn't brutal or awful but I don't like it when people romanticize any kind of war.

Yes, I wasn't really serious. And I think you are right again - sometimes I think "olden" wars are a bit romanticized. But on the other hand, although wars are always awful and not-human, but the present day warfare makes them even more not-human (if this makes any sense).

[arathesane.livejournal.com]

I think that there may be some wars in the past where you could draw a line, like WWII but even then it's muddy. One of my favourite books ever is Studs Terkel's "The Good War" (http://www.amazon.com/Good-War-Oral-History-World/dp/1565843436), which an oral history of WWII. Terkel called it that because it is often referred to as "the good war" but he was also using it in an ironic sense, as he makes it clear that no war is ever good. The fascist powers needed to be stopped, but there were horrific atrocities on all sides. Looking back on how WWII was taught when I was in elementary and secondary school, I am a bit appalled. There was quite a lot of emphasis on Axis atrocities and the holocaust(as well there should be)but next to nothing about the firebombings of Dresden and Toyko, very little about Japanese internment camps in the US, and an almost jingoist view of the dropping of the atomic bombs. There was also very little about the sacrifice of the Soviet Union. Things were different by the time I was in 11th grade but I think that was due to my teacher and the fact that it was a college credit course.

Sorry for that rambling! I do get what you mean about wars in the past appearing more clear cut but I also think that part of that is just since it's history, it's easier for us to dissect it and look upon it with clear eyes.


but the present day warfare makes them even more not-human (if this makes any sense).
Oh, it makes absolute sense. The mechanization of warfare does dehumanize, well, everyone. It makes it much easier to kill people and the further we get away from hand-to-hand combat the more dehumanizing and disconnected it gets. I mean, even with the atomic bombings the pilots and bombers had to fly over and release the bombs. But look at things like the drone attacks in Pakistan. There remotely controlled, it's almost as if someone is playing a video game. Yet, they're killing people. It's very disturbing and surreal to think about.

I, too, find it very hard to think about current wars. Mainly because I just get very angry and frustrated over the amount of pain they cause.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Looking back on how WWII was taught when I was in elementary and secondary school, I am a bit appalled. There was quite a lot of emphasis on Axis atrocities and the holocaust(as well there should be)but next to nothing about the firebombings of Dresden and Toyko, very little about Japanese internment camps in the US, and an almost jingoist view of the dropping of the atomic bombs. There was also very little about the sacrifice of the Soviet Union.

The same happened in the Soviet Union as well - the sacrifice was enormous but there were things that Soviet soldiers did in Europe that weren't so noble. But again, I am sure that this is the same for any soldiers.

I, too, find it very hard to think about current wars. Mainly because I just get very angry and frustrated over the amount of pain they cause.

Yes, also few recent wars were really hard to justify from any POV.