Buffy season 3

[alexandral]

I liked the first season of "Buffy the vampire slayer" , I loved the season two but when I got to the season three there is not an episode passing by without me being cranky about one thing or another (and I am on episode 3X19 now – "Choices"). But I still in love with the show none the less. :D I think the problem for me is that my teen years are long gone and forgotten and that my POV is not the one this show was made for..

Cranky thoughts:

I wish Buffy felt sorry for what she did to her mother when she was absent for so many weeks! Buffy's comeback was shown quite briefly and as far as I could see it was all about how Joyce tried to say she is sorry.. Buffy at this time seems to be brooding about Angel's death and hardly noticing her mother..



2. Willow and Xander – OH kids! You are not doing this! OH NO!NO!NO! .What about Oz who is so wonderful? What about Cordelia who is so good looking? Also I think I reached the point where Willow's change into a lesbian will be very difficult to believe for me. As meganbmoore said – she carries such a big torch for Xander that no, I will never be able to believe that she is a lesbian. Bi-sexual is fine with me..



3. Buffy competing in her school's "Homecoming queen" contest. I am may be completely silly about this but it is time to confess - for me all these popularity contests at school are at their best strange and at their worst unhealthy and the same goes for beauty pageants..



4. Oh no, Willow! NOOOOO! I like Xander quite a fair bit because he is so entertaining but what I don't understand is – how come all the girls end up in Xander's arms? In his best he seems be not at all attractive in "that" way.



5. I was rather upset on Giles' behalf that Buffy didn't tell him about Angel's comeback. I can see how Giles is entitled to think at this moment that he is less important for Buffy then Angel is. Also hiding Angel's come back from Giles was highly unnecessary IMHO..



6. Buffy, Angel and fake snow. Christmas episode seemed to be out of place for me. I was expecting Santa Claus to appear and bless them.. Thanks goodness he didn't!



7. When Buffy lost her powers (temporarily) in "Helppless". Oh, Buffy! You were complaining so much that you want a normal life that I believed you. Why are you complaining now that you don't have your powers anymore? And why in the future, after you get your powers back, you will complain again ("Earshot")?



8. Sorry for repeating myself – but dear Willow, you are so not a lesbian! (And I am greatly upset that you are not crying about Oz here! Oz is Awesome!)



Gleeful thoughts:
1. Principle Snider – how I love thee!



2. Giles and Buffy's mother as teenagers – this made me so gleeful! "Band Candy" episode is going to be remembered in the future annals!



3. Spike's " You Will Be In Love Until It Kills You Both. You Will Hate Each other Until It Makes You Quiver.." in "Lover's walk". He seems to be having to "truth speaking" powers, doesn't he?



4. HEEE! Willow and Xander made a pair of most excellent vampires! ("The Wish")



5,. Scary Hansel and Gretel instigating witch-hint episode ("Gingerbread"). There is nothing as scary as scary children (as Henry James noted :D).



6. Wesley and Codrelia (and WESLEY!) I think I am on the long run with liking Wesley's character because he is so adorkable! He is like Giles but at the same time not like Giles..



7. The arch with Faith getting off the rails was really believable and complex and disturbing..It hasn't finished yet but this is the best part of the third season. It all started getting better with Wesley's appearing and it seems to be going to end on a great note..

Comments

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

I think I am on the long run with liking Wesley's character because he is so adorkable!

You must watch "Angel"! If you like Wesley in Buffy, then Angel is obligatory.(Just ask queenofthorns - I'm pretty sure she'll back me up on this. )
(then again I've always liked "Angel" better than "Buffy" - probably because I never really liked Buffy as a character. I didn't dislike her either, but there was never any love)

And I love the whole Faith-arc. Such an interesting character - but again to get it all: "You must watch Angel". Hee!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

You must watch "Angel"! If you like Wesley in Buffy, then Angel is obligatory.(Just ask queenofthorns - I'm pretty sure she'll back me up on this. )

She was mentioning that she likes Wesley! I think Angel looks like a "must" at the moment. :D I'll start watching it as soon as Angel leaves "Buffy".

I have strange feelings about Buffy as a character - I like her very much but more in a motherly "love for an ever complaining unhappy child" love. I really feel for her at times but at other times I find her complaining too much and want to give her a motherly "get over it, me dearie".. I find I am much more bonding with the characters of my own age - Giles, Wesley and even Angel (who to all intents and purposes is not a teenager!)

And I love the whole Faith-arc. Such an interesting character - but again to get it all: "You must watch Angel". Hee!

HEE! She strikes such an accord in me - I always felt for all deprived children! Even when they do horrible things I still feel for them! Where Buffy seems to be from quite a cushioned background Faith seems to have many sceletons in her closet..

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

Yes! watch "Angel"! Did you know I actually didn't like Angel as a character that much until that series? He was just too much Buffy's pretty, suffering boyfriend. But in "Angel" there character comes into his own, and also there is some wonderful Cordelia, and of course Wesley. ;)

I think your feelings about Buffy very much mirror my own. Though I do like her better in for instance season 5, I always felt like giving her a comforting hug more than identifying with her.

Giles is awesome! And you are so right in "Bad Candy" being a wonderful episode. Did you know that there was talk of making a Giles-stand alone series? Sadly this was scrapped. :(

Faith is one of my favourite anti-heroes (though that title isn't completely fitting, but close enough) in the Jossverse.
In many ways she works as a dark mirror to Buffy's character, which I find interesting - and she also shows how the whole Slayer-concept is very much fraught with shades of gray.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Yes! watch "Angel"! Did you know I actually didn't like Angel as a character that much until that series? He was just too much Buffy's pretty, suffering boyfriend

This was actually mt opinion of Angel, too. Kinda. My introduction to the Buffyverse was the Pylea arc at the end of season 2 of Angel when TnT was showing Angel reruns...after a few weeks of that, I set to properly acquiring and watching Buffy and just couldn't understand why I didn't like him nearly as much...sure, I could get behind the Buffy/Angel ship and all, but I didn't care a lot about Angel himself...Until I got to properly watch Angel season 1, where I fell in love with the series all over again in the first ep.

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

My introduction to the Buffyverse was the Pylea arc at the end of season 2 of Angel

"Numfar! Do the dance of Joy!" Hee!

And what your are describing is very much my experience in regards to Angel as well. Rewatching "Buffy" now I 'get' the character more, but I still think he is best in "Angel".
Not only does he get more back story, but he also gets to be funnier. And have friends who make fun of his brooding!

Also I think "Angel" benefits from being slightly darker than "Buffy".

Hmm...all of this is making me want to watch the series again. It's been far to long.

btw - this isn't the first time we've had things in common. Would you mind if I friended you?

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think having people around to mock his brooding and to provide direct counterpoints helps a lot with Angel. I also prefer the ensemble feel of Angel to the ensemble feel of Buffy, and I love the darker, noirish feel of Angel.

btw - this isn't the first time we've had things in common. Would you mind if I friended you?

Go for it. I've considered asking you the same every time we've agreed in the past(and you are asking me while using a Han and Leia icon, too...)

I am currently obsessively watching Supernatural S2(and shipping Dean/Jo like a loon even though I probably shouldn't...)

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

Hee! It is done. ;)

As for "Angel" - Not sure I can say exacetly why, but I always felt the ensemble of "Angel" worked better than the ensemble on "Buffy", maybe because Angel needs people around him more than Buffy does? So the whole ensemble feels more vital? Ahh...I'm probably just babbling here.

And Han/Leia - probably one of my first OTP's. So yay for the Han and Leia love.

and shipping Dean/Jo like a loon even though I probably shouldn't...)

Hee. Just don't let parts of SPN fandom hear you and you should be fine. ;) But I see your point - SPN needs some romance, and a female recurring character that shakes things up a bit emotionally.

Also I would love a storyline that made Dean emotionally conflicted about his loyalty to his family vs. the girl he loved. After all - romance! emotional conflict! Angst! What's not to love?

And OMG! I just found your Madmartigan Willow post! :D

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

As for "Angel" - Not sure I can say exacetly why, but I always felt the ensemble of "Angel" worked better than the ensemble on "Buffy", maybe because Angel needs people around him more than Buffy does? So the whole ensemble feels more vital? Ahh...I'm probably just babbling here.

It makes sense. Angel needs those people-specifically, people well aware of both his sides-to keep him sane and on the straight and narrow...just look what happened when he pulled away from Cordy, Wes and Gunn in S2.

And Han/Leia - probably one of my first OTP's. So yay for the Han and Leia love.

I will be shocked-SHOCKED!-should I ever encounter someone who doesn't like Han and Leia...it just can't be humanly possible...

Hee. Just don't let parts of SPN fandom hear you and you should be fine. ;) But I see your point - SPN needs some romance, and a female recurring character that shakes things up a bit emotionally.

Actually, shipping or no shipping, I think Jo is a great foil for both brothers. I just love Dean's "you're cute and I like you but I have no idea what to do with you and all the normal stuff will get me killed" face.

Also I would love a storyline that made Dean emotionally conflicted about his loyalty to his family vs. the girl he loved. After all - romance! emotional conflict! Angst! What's not to love?

it isthe thing that happy fangirls are made of.

And OMG! I just found your Madmartigan Willow post! :D

My love for Madmartigan is deep and abiding.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

He was just too much Buffy's pretty, suffering boyfriend. But in "Angel" there character comes into his own, and also there is some wonderful Cordelia, and of course Wesley. ;)

He was quite a mysterious figure in the seasons 1 and 2 , I liked it. He has a potential with the flashbacks and I also found his evil soulless alter-ego strangely mesmerizing. But I agree about season 3 – he hasn't done anything interesting yet (he is recovering after centuries in Hell, poor thing ;D)

Did you know that there was talk of making a Giles-stand alone series? Sadly this was scrapped. :(

Oh, no! This could have been wonderful! (But I am lloking forward to so many future episodes of "Buffy" with Giles!!)

In many ways she works as a dark mirror to Buffy's character, which I find interesting - and she also shows how the whole Slayer-concept is very much fraught with shades of gray.

** nods ** This comes back to many other things, for example – Is Dexter a monster? Where is that line lies which separates evil deeds from heroic ones? (And of course, back to ASOIF – isn't it sometimes just a question of POV?)

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Season 3 actually made it kind of hard for me to like Xander and Willow as much. I think largely because of the fallout of the Xander/Willow bit. I came out of that feeling for Cordy and Oz and mad at Willow and Xander. Unfortunately, as it seemed to be shown primarily from their perspectives, it didn't help much. Willow carries a torch for Xander long after deciding she's a lesbian(and it really did come across more as a decision than anything else...that and her inability to get a likable AND interesting-as opposed to one but not the other-love interest besides Oz kept me from ever being able to buy into that)

It thought Buffy's return was handled a bit abruptly myself...it seemed hat all the fault was meant to be Joyce's for having troubles accepting that Buffy was the slayer, when really, she was never given much of a chance to get used to the idea and then Buffy completely disappeared...

Wesley is one of my favorite Buffy/Angel characters, and Faith's going off the rails carries heavily into seasons 1 and 4 of Angel(it also carries into season 4 of Buffy, but, IMO, was just a way to bring her back for Angel...I think that. plotwise, the Angel events are more important)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Season 3 actually made it kind of hard for me to like Xander and Willow as much. I think largely because of the fallout of the Xander/Willow bit. I came out of that feeling for Cordy and Oz and mad at Willow and Xander.

Oh, I went through this myself. At the moment I quite forgiven it to Xander – in a strange way because he never was in love with Willow and still keeps pining for Cordelia (and she still haven't forgiven him and by the look of it never will). But Willow got out of this too easily , I think! Poor Oz is so incredibly fabulous and he forgiven her so easily but she still keeps crying about Xander.

But I am so contrary because out of younger ones Willow is my favourite character ( I just can relate!) . My second favourite is Cordelia.

It thought Buffy's return was handled a bit abruptly myself...it seemed hat all the fault was meant to be Joyce's for having troubles accepting that Buffy was the slayer

Exactly! And as a mother myself I felt that a mother is sort of ALLOWED to take an interest in her daughter's affairs and show her approval or disapproval. But any mother's worst possible thing ever is disappearance of her child. She had no idea where Buffy was and she even didn't know if she is alive. Imagine that! ** shudders ** The same goes for Giles and Buffy's friends .. But strangely – Buffy half-apologised to Willow but never apologized to her mother. She could have sent her mother a postcard or something, just to let her know she is ALIVE (sorry, I am ranting here!)..

I think that. plotwise, the Angel events are more important)

You all make me want to watch "Angel" .. And YAY! For Wesley!

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I don't think Cordy ever quite forgives Xander, but she seems ok with Willow in Angel...Willow shows up a bit later on, and they talk on the phone in season 1 or 2 of Angel and she seems ok with her there, too.

I'm not even a mother, but I was completely on everyone but Buffy's side when she returned. It seemed that we were mostly meant to see it from the perspective of Buffy's heartbreak, and I could, but at the same time, it was easier for me to side byt he people who didn't even know if she was alive or where she was than the person who couldn't even go "hey! i'm fine...just need some away time!" I did, however, love Cordelia's little bit on her return(paraphrased as it's been a while) "well, you're back and you're ok and you're still a loser, so everythings fine now"(which is Cordy's way of giving a crying blubbering bear hug out of relief...just like "shut up cordelia" means "it's good to see you too")

You should want to watch angel. Angel is awesome.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Cordelia's "Spank your inner moppet" speech was the moment I just fell in love with the character. Hee! It's like she serves to undercut all the crazy angsty drama of Buffy and ANgel, by being INCREDIBLY straightforward and plainspeaking.

"Angel" IS awesome :P And I too never really cared that much for him on "Buffy" - perhaps because we only see him through Buffy's eyes, and in her eyes, he's this dark Byronic hero type with absolutely no humor at all, whereas on "Angel", they mocked Angel a lot for the brooding!

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think that's it exactly. In Buffy, we largely saw people through Buffy's eyes, or if not hers, then someone else's. But everyone was shown through a "perspective" and Angel was only really shown as the man Buffy loved. It worked for the story but left me kinda cold for the character, especially since I first met him in Angel. Starting with the Pylea arc of Angel, which lovingly mocks every fantasy stereotype out there, made going back to the beginning of Buffy rather odd, especially as I loved Angel as shown there so much(though I don't think I ever really loved Boreaniz himself until Bones)

Seeing early Cordy was easier, though, as she was a less mature, more self involved(which can be a scary thought...a more self involved Cordy...) version of her Angel self. The thing that always made me love Cordy is that she really is a nice, fairly caring person, it's just that her straightforwardness andplainspeaking and selfinvolvement are so amazingly overwhelming that you just kinda stare in awe of her, loving every second of it.

Sigh...I miss Angel...

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I did, however, love Cordelia's little bit on her return(paraphrased as it's been a while) "well, you're back and you're ok and you're still a loser, so everythings fine now"(which is Cordy's way of giving a crying blubbering bear hug out of relief...just like "shut up cordelia" means "it's good to see you too")

Oh, that speech was excellent! Cordelia has some most incredinly wonderful lines. My favourite is on beholding Wesley for a first time "Check out Giles – the next generation.." YAY!

[fivil.livejournal.com]

This is why I guess I'm glad I watched the episodes as a total kid (I was like 10 when the first couple of seasons of Buffy aired on Finnish TV and staying up late to watch them was like the coolest thing ever back then).. I didn't see every episode and I was just fully into the cool vampire stuff, not really aware of the greater plot developments or subtext or cultural references.

I remember shipping Willow/Oz madly, and somehow my brain blanked out any Xander/Willow that may or may not have happened on the show. I liked some of the future Xander ships, though - I won't name them in case you fear spoilers - even though Xander in the end might've been a bit too much of an ass for me to genuinely like.

I also blanked out on the development of Willow's eventual lesbian ship.. Miss an episode or two and suddenly it happened. XD

Evidently I was not that faithful a follower of the show but enjoyed some of it regardless. Just wasn't that invested, I suppose.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

This is why I guess I'm glad I watched the episodes as a total kid (I was like 10 when the first couple of seasons of Buffy aired on Finnish TV and staying up late to watch them was like the coolest thing ever back then).

Oh, I imagine if I saw it when I was 10+ - I am sure I would have absolutely adored it! (As if I am not liking it now :D). I want to finish it all as this show seems to be really influential culturally!

I remember shipping Willow/Oz madly, and somehow my brain blanked out any Xander/Willow that may or may not have happened on the show.

I think I am going to do the same. :D It is a bit of a tease to have this coolest guy and not to give him happy pairing! (WRONG! SO WRONG!)

I liked some of the future Xander ships, though - I won't name them in case you fear spoilers

Do you mean Anya? I quite liked her in "The Wish" – she was full of spark!

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

As everyone has already said, you have to watch Angel, because it's in many ways a much better show than Buffy, even though I love the first five and half seasons of Buffy quite madly. I love Spike's speech about love, too. He really does get all the best lines.

Finally, you've caught Giles' grumpy expression absolutely perfectly in that cap. Is there any way you can make me an icon of it that says: We are not amused ? A million thanks if you can.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Angel is a MUST, it seems!

Here are the icons ( they are slightly different in lightness, I always find it difficult to choose :). Please don't feel like you "have" to have the icon if it is not calling you!

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much! I took all three, because I keep going back and forth on which one I like best. Eventually I'll choose one, though, because I love it. Thank you so much again. ::hugs::

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I am so glad you like them - I think I am going to crack and make hundreds of Giles' icons (even though I have seen so many excellent ones already made!)

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

Your icons are so wonderful, though, that of course you want to make your own! :-)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

HEE! thank you so much! You are so kind always!! My icon-maker's ego feels really happy! ** big squeeze **

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

Trust me, the compliment was completely deserved. ::hugs::

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

You are so kind!!!!!

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Hee! I really enjoyed your discussion of "Amends" because it's so sentimental and soppy and trite and just AWFUL (and btw, penned by none other than Joss Whedon himself, so he always puts it on his list of favorite "Buffy" episodes and I just ... NO!!!)

I love "The Wish" - that hard, cold look at what WOULD have happened;
"Band Candy" is fantastic, and I love the entire arc with Faith. (And as baleanoptera says above, watching "Angel" is OBLIGATORY for seeing what happens to Wesley later on!)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Hee! I really enjoyed your discussion of "Amends" because it's so sentimental and soppy and trite and just AWFUL (and btw, penned by none other than Joss Whedon himself, so he always puts it on his list of favorite "Buffy" episodes and I just ... NO!!!)

I was particular miffed about snow being FAKE. :P In serious, I am not that keen of Buffy/Angel developments in season 3 . They were more interesting to me in seasons 1 and 2..

I love "The Wish" - that hard, cold look at what WOULD have happened;

It would have been almost unbearably dark if not for Willow and Xander amusing vampire alter-egos and Cordelia's spark. You must love the girl for her one-liners!

days late, and just a few thoughts

[bzoppa.livejournal.com]

(because I can write tomes on Buffy/Angel)

First off, I've seen season 3 of Buffy an absolute disgusting amount of times. Not as much as season 2, but I still have whole swaths of eps memorized. I was in college when they aired, and I used to run the eps as background noise while I worked.

In response to QoT's "cold hard look" about what might have been in "The Wish," what struck me most is it showed just how Buffy could've flown off the rails as Faith. It's because Buffy had the support system she had that she stayed sane.

The Buffy-Giles scene is his apartment ripped my heart out. "You could always put a stake in her." "She's not a vampire, Ms. Summers." "You'd be surprised how many things a stake through the heart will kill."

And when Giles broke the amulet? "What makes you think the world can be any better than this?" "Because it has to be." His delivery of that line, even in memory at 6:40 in the morning years after it first aired, still gets me teary.

I will second, third, and fourth that you should watch Angel in tandem with Buffy, but just for the first two seasons of Angel (before Buffy moved to UPN and they split the storylines). You don't really have to do it one-by-one, but there are some brilliant crossovers that won't be as powerful if you don't watch them together. I don't want to spoil, but they're in Buffy 5 and Angel 2—I think you'll figure it out when you get there. Oh, there are a couple in the 4th/1st but there are four really powerful eps in both series that fill in the history that won't be nearly as meaningful if you don't see them together.

I... liked "Amends" on first viewing, and even a bit after that. Can't help it, but I was a HUGE Buffy/Angel shipper.

And now I'm having memories of Angel's "I Will Remember You" which shattered my heart into tiny tiny pieces at the end. It's also the last episode iheartschnickle ever watched of Angel.

Re: days late, and just a few thoughts

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

EEEEEEEE! I apologise for answering so late!

In response to QoT's "cold hard look" about what might have been in "The Wish," what struck me most is it showed just how Buffy could've flown off the rails as Faith. It's because Buffy had the support system she had that she stayed sane.

** Nods ** But at the same time it was a bit strange for me – I see Buffy as a girl who will always attract the right kind of people, she is just like that. She was lucky in a way with Giles as her Watcher but Willow and Xander were drawn to her as magnets! So yes, I agree that the look of the alter-reality was interesting but I think it s much lower in probability.

And when Giles broke the amulet? "What makes you think the world can be any better than this?" "Because it has to be."

Loved it! Out of all the gang Giles is a person who influenced Buffy instead of being influenced by her. Remember first season's Willow and Xander? Willow could have been much more "geeky and strange" rather then "geeky and cute" and Xander could have been much more of a "village idiot" if they haven't met Buffy.. But Giles? Giles is Giles..

I will second, third, and fourth that you should watch Angel in tandem with Buffy

EEE! My "Angel" should arrive at the weekend!

I... liked "Amends" on first viewing, and even a bit after that. Can't help it, but I was a HUGE Buffy/Angel shipper.

I think I am just too old and unforgiving. :D

[teh-haley.livejournal.com]

First: I LOVE your review of season three! I agree with you about 99% of the things you wrote!

Buffy at this time seems to be brooding about Angel's death and hardly noticing her mother
When I saw this episode for the first time, I paid less attention to what you noticed about Joyce being hurt by Buffy's absence. I was so shocked and painful about Angel's death that I didn't pay attention, but you're right, I guess!

Willow and Xander – OH kids! You are not doing this!
I disagree with this point - I think they were SO matching each other during the first three seasons, I loved seing them together in this way! BUT:
I reached the point where Willow's change into a lesbian will be very difficult to believe for me
totally agree. Not believable that much, to me.

Why are you complaining now that you don't have your powers anymore?
That's what I thought, but being a complaining girl like me, Buffy loves suffering, I guess this is the right answer ;)

I was expecting Santa Claus to appear and bless them
lol okay, this made me laugh A LOT :D you are so right :D

Giles and Buffy's mother as teenagers
I love that episode, it's so funny and enjoyable :D they crack me up!

He seems to be having to "truth speaking" powers, doesn't he?
Maybe Joss Whedon was afraid we DIDN'T KNOW IT YET :D

The arch with Faith getting off the rails was really believable and complex and disturbing
I really like Faith and her character was one of the best thing of season three, to me!

Keep me updated when you finish watching it!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

That's what I thought, but being a complaining girl like me, Buffy loves suffering, I guess this is the right answer ;)

I like what you say (but I must disagree about you being a complaining type :D). I think Buffy is quite fragile inside. With all her physical powers this can seen a contradiction but it really isn't – she hasn't chosen her way!

Maybe Joss Whedon was afraid we DIDN'T KNOW IT YET :D

Heee! I love the way you said it!