"Rome" episode 6 "Philippi"

[alexandral]

Notes on "Rome" episode 6 "Philippi". I liked it very much because I do like "Rome" and it can't do anything wrong for me at the moment, but I had some uneasy and confused feelings about involvement of Pullo and Vorenus into the murder of Cicero and other murders. Historical inaccuracies don’t matter much for me, and even the fact that Vorenus and Pullo are the weapons of the execution of hundreds of innocent citizens do not worry me that much too. This is their job. Though I was expecting Pullo to disagree with the assignment to murder Cicero, especially in the bit where he was nailing Cicero’s hands to the door.

The main thing I am not sure about is the “peaches” scene when Pullo murders Cicero. I don’t know, but Pullo seemed to look quite uncaring what Cicero’s feelings were at that moment and hesitating unnecessarily. And what worries me even more that asking to pick the peaches for his wife from the guy whom you are about to murder is somehow a silly (and quite a cruel) thing to do. And I do not like to see Pullo cruel or silly. ;(

I liked Cicero in this scene, though. He was full of dignity. I thought that may be Cicero's death is in parallel with the death of Brutus in Philippi and the "Philippi" in the title refers to the both of them. A cruel death as an acceptance of their fate.



But a very good thing is that Pullo is totally impervious to Gaia’s charms and sees her through!! I knew this!!!!!!!!!YAY!!! And I have made my mind about Gaia – I DO NOT LIKE HER! She is very bad news and a great stirrer of trouble. And she is trying to cause trouble between everyone.



Even the latest rift between Vorenus and his daughter about the make-up is all Gaia’s doing. Though Vorenus keeps being clueless in how to behave himself with his daughter, smack his head!!!! And the older Vorena’s suitor seems to be very very creepy. And obviously he is working for Memmio.

But I still believe that the differences between Vorenus and his daughter will be resolved, and it was so wonderful to see the younger kids happy at the countryside picnic. And the way Vorenus goes around carrying little Lucius and being very protective of him is so heart-warming! And how little Lucius carries the elephant that Vorenus mended everywhere around with him!

The picnic:




And how sad it was to hear Pullo saying that he doesn’t know where his is coming or going and that the only thing he knows and likes is violence. Very poignant scene, very difficult one because at the same time it is a scene where we see Vorenus and Pullo talking to each other, being that great unit of friends. And among all this, if I understood Pullo correctly, he wants to go and do his own thing. He is not satisfied with being “the second man in Aventive” anymore. I absolutely don’t blame him, but this doesn't mean that I am happy that the boys will go their separate ways.

As a side point, I am not sure what to think about Vorenus’ attempt to make the collegia an honest place. How will it all go? With the enemies like Memmio? From the blood money?

But all this said, it is fabulous to see Pullo and Vorenus together and Vorenus “full of purpose” as Pullo said:








Two picspams of the day

Agrippa and Octavia My little shippy heart is so happy!! This is where I use up my daily allowance of exclamation marks! And I am so warmed up to Maecenas too because though he knows everything about Agrippa and Octavia, he is not saying anything to Octavian. But Agrippa!!! Agrippa is definitely my favourite historucal figure. His gandfather was a slave (is this true?) and his name is written upon the Pantheone for the many generations to see. And I don't want to think about the consequences of Agrippa's and Octavia's love, at all.






































Brutus breaks Alexandra’s heart. It is not a spoiler as this episode is named Philippi I guess











EEE! I have blurted this all out! Now I can go and read everyone's posts! And also I should go home and catch up on some sleep!!

Comments

[bzoppa.livejournal.com]

Love the face of Agrippa on #7. He's such a little boy.

I'll say this ep didn't do much for me. I'm glad that Agrippa and Octavia got at least one ep's worth of sex.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Agrippa is fabulous. And the glance he stole at cheeky Mark Antony at the Phillipi was priceless! I could just see him thinking "there will be your turn too". (Soon I will be upset for Mark Antony because he is great. And I am going to miss him).

This wasn't my favourite episode, but this all is forgiven because of the Ocatvia and Agrippa's love!

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I actually kind of like the peaches scene – I don’t think Pullo is being callous or unfeeling (after all, unlike all the other guys sent to kill the senators, Pullo only takes some peaches - after he asks for them politely – as opposed to looting the man’s house, raping his daughter – poor Jocasta! – etc.) And I think that some of this comes out in his conversation with Eirene later on, because look, he’s a hired killer again, even though his boss is Octavian now, and not Erastes Fulmen, and so he thinks back to a time when he was a killer on more honorable terms in the ranks fo the Thirteenth :P

And I find the scene in Cicero’s garden just quite wonderful actually – the Republic dies like this, quietly, in a sunlit garden, and the killing at Philippi is really just the aftermath.

And absolutely, yes to this idea that Pullo wants something more than to just be remembered as the "Number Two Man" - I think again his conversation with Eirene is telling where he thinks he might be a centurion or a legate if he rejoined the legions. I did love her saying she was "preglant" by the way :P

I loved the picnic too – it was so wonderfully … strange. “Oh, I’m off to kill someone, let’s have a picnic.”

As for Agrippa, his family came from the equestrian rank and were quite wealthy, but no, I don’t think his grandfather was a slave. They were sort of middle-to-lower-class country folk (think of Vorenus as he might have been as magistrate.)

P.S. Your package came yesterday (and I've put it to some use - icons in my latest post!) Although I am having a lot of difficulty figuring out how to do certain things - it's very complicated! - so I might be bugging you for advice. You are such a sweetie-pie! Thank you SO much (and for your extremely clear instructions!)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

actually kind of like the peaches scene – I don’t think Pullo is being callous or unfeeling (after all, unlike all the other guys sent to kill the senators, Pullo only takes some peaches - after he asks for them politely – as opposed to looting the man’s house, raping his daughter – poor Jocasta! – etc.)

I have definitely strong feelings on this – for me asking someone “Can I have your peaches for my wife” is really saying “I have a wife and she is alive and I am alive and I will be eating your peaches after you are dead”. It can be either used as a mocking thing, but I don’t think it was intended to be so. I think it was intended to be some sort of allegory, but it sits very badly with me. Because if Pullo is not mocking Cicero (this is so cruel and I don’t think this is what he is doing), it shows Pullo in a silly light, as if he doesn’t understand the implications of what he is saying. Because apart of the above meaning the whole conversation shows Pullo’s complete disrespect for Cicero’s life. He can only think of peaches at the moment of Cicero’s death, peaches are more important then Cicero’s life. ** grrrrrrrrr **

As for rapings, I guess in Cicero’s book nailing his hands to the doors as his arch-enemy Mark Antony wanted is most likely as bad. From his POV it must be a huge dishonor.

And I think that some of this comes out in his conversation with Eirene later on, because look, he’s a hired killer again, even though his boss is Octavian now,

This is another thing that is very confusing, so confusing for me that I think “do I know Pullo?” and I doubt even my everlasting life for the whole production. I believe in conversation with Eirene and Vorenus Pullo says that he LIKES violence. I am very confused!!!! Where is Pullo of the beginning of this season? Is “the old Pullo” out again?

I loved the picnic too – it was so wonderfully … strange. “Oh, I’m off to kill someone, let’s have a picnic.”

This was bizarre. I liked that Vorenus’ younger kids seem to be definitely happier, and even Vorena herself. Thinking about suitors is quite a way from black dark tunnel. And Lyde seems to be talking to Vorenus, even though he still clueless.

As for Agrippa, his family came from the equestrian rank and were quite wealthy, but no, I don’t think his grandfather was a slave.

That was what I suspected, it just seemed unlikely!! Thank you so much for this!!

P.S. Your package came yesterday EEEEEEE! I am so glad!!!! Please ask me anything you want. I will be less present on LJ (some points of my RL are really requiring more of my attention for few month) , so just drop me an e-mail when you want to.

The worm turns

[aerynsunx.livejournal.com]

This is another thing that is very confusing, so confusing for me that I think “do I know Pullo?” and I doubt even my everlasting life for the whole production. I believe in conversation with Eirene and Vorenus Pullo says that he LIKES violence. I am very confused!!!! Where is Pullo of the beginning of this season? Is “the old Pullo” out again?

After rewatching this episode a couple of times, I found myself feeling the same confusion re Pullo. Wait a minute (I reminded myself), wasn't he over fighting? There was a contradiction here and I had to figure it out. So here's what I think now. As long as Pullo had a mission, something to fight for (to win Eirene, to help Vorenus) he had no need for soldiering. But now that those personal fights are done, he needs a new mission. The Aventine job isn't enough to satisfy that longing.

When Pullo says to Vorenus "It's good to see you so happy and full of purpose again.", I think that's the key to Pullo's mood. He's lost his purpose. And fighting for Octavian, which he's sworn to do, makes sense to him to fill that void. But Vorenus's happiness is due to the fact he has his children back. After we see Pullo longing for war and violence, he finds out he's going to be a father. We haven't really seen the full effect of that announcement yet on the Pullo/Vorenus household. But maybe with a baby on the way, he'll have found his new purpose in life. Something new to fight for. Rather, to live for.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Because apart of the above meaning the whole conversation shows Pullo’s complete disrespect for Cicero’s life. He can only think of peaches at the moment of Cicero’s death, peaches are more important then Cicero’s life

Oh, I totally disagree. I think he is treating Cicero as a human being - unlike the other men whom Vorenus sent to kill the Senators, whom he allowed to loot (and rape - poor Jocasta!) and slaughter without mercy. The fact that Pullo has the courtesy to ask if he can take the peaches (rather than grabbing them after Cicero is dead) is actually much more respectful to me. It's not unfeeling - just that for Pullo it is the luck of the draw; if Cicero/Brutus/Cassius had won, then someone like Pullo would be at Atia's house, plunging a sword into the necks of Antony and Octavian and Agrippa. Fortuna favors one side, then the other.

I guess in Cicero’s book nailing his hands to the doors as his arch-enemy Mark Antony wanted is most likely as bad. From his POV it must be a huge dishonor.

And no, I don't think nailing Cicero's hands to the Senate door is NEARLY as bad as raping his daughter would have been - for one thing, he is already dead. (Plus, historically, Fulvia, Antony's wife, ran his tongue through with a sword - the gesture is because his tongue and his hands - for writing - were the weapons that he used against Antony.) And he already knew, I think that this would happen if Antony "won." I think Cicero almost dies content, because he believes his message will get to Brutus and Cassius in time.

Pullo says that he LIKES violence. I am very confused!!!! Where is Pullo of the beginning of this season? Is “the old Pullo” out again?

Well, the same Pullo who tenderly took care of Vorenus is also the one who participated in the bloody slaughter of Erastes Fulmen's men. I don't think it's an either/or situation with these two men - both Pullo and Vorenus are men of violence and they have ALWAYS been men of violence because these are the times they live in (Vorenus, though he personally kills no one in this episode, is of course the one who orders the murders of hundreds of people without any compunction and of course all the little side-crimes like the rape of Jocasta are also a part of that order - and in the same episode, he is extremely tender and kind and gentle with his children.) I don't see this as a contradiction - I think these two elements in the personalities of Pullo and Vorenus have been there all along. It is just difficult to watch them kill people who are more likeable than Erastes!

What strikes me is that Pullo does not want to be an assassin any more - there is honor in being a soldier, and a structure and honor to the violence of being a soldier. Pullo once told Erastes Fulmen that he was a soldier, not a murderer - and then of course, he became a murderer for Erastes, and then after he came out of the arena, sorry for all the 'bad things' that he did, he is now again a murderer, even if this time it is for Octavian and for Vorenus. When he was in the Thirteenth, it is a different kind of violence, not the killing of unarmed and defenseless people.

Now, onto the Vorenus family dynamic - yes, Vorena is much happier (and I like that Vorenus has hired a kind of governess to watch his daughters) but I do not think that Vorenus is himself the cause. She's still furious with him - and I think the scene where he makes her take off the makeup (I too loathe Gaia) is kind of fraught with tension, so flirting with that guy is a way to get back at her father. But I do agree that he really seems to have a lovely bond with little Lucius. Perhaps this boy will be the one to 'save' Vorenus somehow (and Vorenus of course can easily adopt him to make him his heir - this is very common in Roman history, so Augustus adopted Livia's son Tiberius, for example.)

[herself_nyc]

Pullo asking for peaches made me laugh. I too thought about it--there was something very civilized in how he gave Cicero time to compose himself, and displayed respect, I thought, in asking for the peaches rather than just taking them afterwards. And didn't he give Cicero some time to sort of pull himself together while he was picking the peaches?

He could've just burst in, run the major domo through, and lopped Cicero's head off. As an assassination, I thought Pullo did it with kindness and sensitivity.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I too thought about it--there was something very civilized in how he gave Cicero time to compose himself, and displayed respect, I thought, in asking for the peaches rather than just taking them afterwards. And didn't he give Cicero some time to sort of pull himself together while he was picking the peaches?

Oh, I am so sorry – more I think about this, more it sits wrong with me. Saying “Can I have some peaches for my wife” is like saying “Me and my wife will be alive and eating your fruit after you are dead”. It could have been a cruel mock, but it more comes out like something unintentional (but silly). I also believe shows Pullo’s complete disregard for Cicero’s wife. It is on of the most important moments in Cicero’s life but Pullo can only think of the fruit.

As an assassination, I thought Pullo did it with kindness and sensitivity.

And then he nailed his hands to the door as Cicero's arch-enemy wanted, dishonoring him IMHO.

[herself_nyc]

Well, it's ancient Rome, not a tea party, of course.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I am very behind on Rome (am still in the middle of first season!) but the caps were lovely. I am a bit odded-out by Octavia/Agrippa because in RL he married her niece much later so it's a bit pre-incest, if that makes sense :)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I don't know, in Wikipedia it says that Agrippa married Octavia's own daughter (not her niece) from her first marriage with Marcellus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Marcella_Major).

I don't know where you are at the moment so

******Spoilers ****************************************************

Octavia's first husband is already dead in HBO's Rome and no daughter was produced. It seems to be historically inaccurate (and who are they going to marry Agrippa to????????) , but no incest :D.

[snowbryneich.livejournal.com]

Drive by Rome fact *waves* and I only came to look at the pretty pictures! Both are correct, historically Agrippa divorved Octavia's daughter Marcella to marry Octavian's daughter Julia, (who was the widow of Marcella's brother.) So pre-incest is nothing really:-)

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

He married both Octavia’s daughter Marcella AND her niece Julia (who was married previously to Octavia’s son Marcellus). That was some messed-up familial dynamic there!

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

Huzzah for the Agrippa/octavia scenes! (and huzzah for such gorgeous caps!) I love how she is the one kissing him. And how she comes in quite breathless to say goodbye to her brother. Oh yes, because it's just her brother she is saying goodbye to. Hee. ;D

Brutus breaks Alexandra’s heart.

He broke mine as well actually. When he cut of his armour and walked towards the soldiers, and then died in an echo of Caesar? I very nearly sobbed! I'm going to miss him.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Huzzah for the Agrippa/octavia scenes! (and huzzah for such gorgeous caps!) I love how she is the one kissing him. And how she comes in quite breathless to say goodbye to her brother. Oh yes, because it's just her brother she is saying goodbye to. Hee. ;D


** swoons again ** Actually I have missed this bit, you are wonderful to notice it. This is so much Octavia’s “the love of her life” . And soon from the big mouth of Atia it all is going to fall down to pieces. She is not even a half as clever as Maecenas to keep this quiet. I feel everything going to go wrong soon!!

I am glad you liked the caps – I made theme very quckly (I had one of “these” days) and they seem to be cloudy. This has to do.

He broke mine as well actually. When he cut of his armour and walked towards the soldiers, and then died in an echo of Caesar?.

Oh, I missed this too. EEEEEEEEEEEEEE! I love this too!

[jenandhughlove.livejournal.com]

I love Brutus in this episode, and i was so sad at the end. Anyway, good caps of Mark Antony, Octavian and Octavia too! :) p.s could i miss Cicero? I'm even more sad now!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

** weeps for Brutus ** I must confess, Mark Antony was a little too cocky for me in this episode. (Remembering what is going to happen soon). I like the guy, but I was sad for him, he doesn't seem to have any vision!!

[elspethsheir.livejournal.com]

Brutus broke my heart too. I had trouble with Pullo and the peaches too (http://elspethsheir.livejournal.com/113700.html#cutid1).

Still not sure how I feel about that.

But Brutus! *weeps*

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I am so glad that this is not “just me”!!!!!!

Still not sure how I feel about that.

I try to blot it out of my memory as some kind of blip for now, but!

But Brutus! *weeps*

And the way that thief cut his father’s ring (which was too big for him) off his finger!

[trufflehog.livejournal.com]

yay! thank you very much for the picspam...and i love it when people post about episodes. stirs up more conversation ;)

i'm still on the fence about pullo and the peach scene. all i know is that it was painfully uncomfortable, especially for cicero, and because of that i think it worked. cicero was lovely. he was also one of my favorite characters...this series won't be the same without him for me :/
same with brutus. oh, i did NOT like cassius when he was first introduced. i thought he was scheming and dangerous. but watching brutus clutch his body, on cassius' birthday...it was intense! poor poor brutus.
two of the best characters are gone. damn. its still such a damn shame to think about.

as for agrippa/octavia. thank you!!!! our little rome-watching group has agreed that agrippa is a little, uh, wishy-washy as a character. especially in a series where most of the characters are morally ambiguous and so complex...it really does feel like he's straight out of a g-rated disney adaptation of the hobbit. that being said....i cannot resist the doomed, adorable -thing- between him and octavia. they'll never last, but damn, while they do i'm gonna milk it for all its worth XD

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I am so glad you liked it!!

i'm still on the fence about pullo and the peach scene. all i know is that it was painfully uncomfortable, especially for cicero, and because of that i think it worked. cicero was lovely. he was also one of my favorite characters...this series won't be the same without him for me :/

I think I am going to think – “OK, I love this show and forget all this as a blip” for now. I see that they were trying to build an allegory/lead to Pullo’s confession that the only thing he knows/understands is violence. Characters are like people, I was probably reading to much into the Pullo’s character, imagining him to be different.

two of the best characters are gone. damn. its still such a damn shame to think about.

It is a sad thing with Rome, isn’t it? I was very bereft when Caesar died, I really enjoyed his character and I love Ciaran Hinds.

our little rome-watching group has agreed that agrippa is a little, uh, wishy-washy as a character. especially in a series where most of the characters are morally ambiguous and so complex...it really does feel like he's straight out of a g-rated disney adaptation of the hobbit.

I think everything is setting up for his change. There is going to be a big heart break ahead and I doubt he is going to emerge as the same cheerful boy at the end of it. ** sigh ** So I treasure this happy moments for now.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

I get what they knew what they were getting at with the peaches scene but it just felt overdone to me - it was enough to have the picnic. I just felt bludgeoned to death with their attempt to contrast how all of these important people die while others just get on with ordinary things.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I get what they knew what they were getting at with the peaches scene but it just felt overdone to me - it was enough to have the picnic. I just felt bludgeoned to death with their attempt to contrast how all of these important people die while others just get on with ordinary things.

I see that they were trying to have some kind of allegory here, but it was a little too wrong-tasted for me. It actually changed in a big way the way I view Pullo. He just emerges as too simple here. It seems that fictional characters are like real people, we don’t notice many things up to a point, but then the time comes when we DO notice. Take me right, I still love his character, but not in a shallow “OMPH, he is so hot sort” of way. (But may be a little I still do :D)

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

I think this was the weakest episode this season, and I'm not quite sure why. I found Cicero's death very moving, though the stuff about the peaches kind of creeped me out. I think maybe it was the battle scenes that bothered me. They seemed small and "thin," and they reminded me too much that I was watching a TV show. Still, even Rome's weakest is miles above most shows' best.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I was also quite disappointed after the battle scene, but I guess these things are difficult for TV shows. There seem to be many battles during the cause of this season, and may be the best way is to leave them behind the scene. It picked up at the moment of Brutus' death for me!! He was amazing!