Britain riots: my two cents (or rather a rant)

[alexandral]

I rarely rant about political matters, but I do so occasionally. This is the day for ranting because I have not seen anything as scary as current British riots in my life (and I lived through the fall-out from the collapse of USSR which at the time I thought to be the scariest time of my life). I do find it doubly-scary because I have always thought that the level of life and opportunities existing in Britain (even now), even in the poorest places, are much higher than in many many places in less developed countries. So I can not quite understand: why? When there is rioting in third-world countries, like China, it is often attributed to the countries' "regime". What are we to attribute the British riots to? Democracy?

I find the situation scary and I find it appalling. But the thing I do not understand personally is what is happening with the Police and other forces responsible for keeping the peace in the country. Where are they?

For example, there is an article explaining "What could the police do to stop the rioting?" on BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14459127. What it says is that Britain is not comfortable with the use of Water Canons, Baton rounds or Army forces. This is a typical phrase: "British policing traditionally did not rely on such methods" and that "In other countries they'd be deployed in the blink of an eye" (meaning Army forces). But seriously, may be this is the time to reconsider?

Comments

[issy-chan.livejournal.com]

First of all, Welcone back :-)
yeah, it's scary what happening these days. last night, it was in Ealing, my local shopping centre and very close by. they burned cars, broken shops widows and robbed stores. I don't see the point in their riot now. if it was a massage at the first day, now it's long forgotten. they don't think that us people have to pick up the cleaning bills afterwords. I am just speechless.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I hope you are safe ** hugs ** . This is terrible and I wish I could help Londoners with the street cleaning.

I need a new Kdrama to take my mid off things. I might try Warrior Baek Dong Soo.

[issy-chan.livejournal.com]

Thanks alot dear.
I need a kdrama too. heehe I am re-watching Tamra Island. one of my most favourite drama to keep me happy in these times. best remedy. ;-)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I have never found time to watch Tamra. I must one day.

[issy-chan.livejournal.com]

You really should. I love this drama beyond imagination and had to buy its DVDs that cost me an arm and a leg last year and still not regretting it.
but if you decide to watch it, don't watch the 16 ep but the 21 ep DC version. it's on viki and withs2 (via).
it also made me madly in love with Lim JuHwan. hehe

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the 21 episodes rec. I noticed Lim JUHwan in "Winter Queen", he is totally my thing.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Try The Princess' Man with Park Shi Hoo and Moon Chae Won. It's romantic and smart and gorgeous. I made a ton of posts on it if you want to check out whether it's your thing.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I have my eye on that one. It has only few episodes out yet - I am so inpatient so I prefer that I have at least 10 eps to start with. But when Princess' Man reaches 10 episodes mark I am going to be all over it.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yay!

Oh, and WBDS is excellent.

And keep safe!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Thank you! We have been safe so far, just Police helicopters flying overhead, not giving us any sleep.

I am starting WBDS today.

[lydzi.livejournal.com]

Looks a lot like what we did have in Paris a couple of years ago. Except we seem to have less destroying stores maybe(it was more about facing the Police). That's why I'm not that shocked. The only thing that does strike me as odd is that I always though that th british were very respectful of the Police over there, contrary to here (no ones likes Police...no one and with good reasons tbh).

Everyone should just calm down, have a Gandhi talk and drink some tea :/. It will pass. It always pass. But it's still very scary to witness.

I'm not sure if the Army is the solution. I'm not sure either the all media talking and making it huge is a solution too. *shrugs*

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I have seen some of conspiracy theories as to why this has been such a distruprive set of incidents - some people believe that the Police was "too slow" on purpose. I don't think so myself (I just think they were taken by surprise by the scale of the events), but the outcome will be favourabe for the Police (they were facing cuts, but the cuts will be canceled after this, I think).

I'm not sure if the Army is the solution. I'm not sure either the all media talking and making it huge is a solution too. *shrugs*

You know me - I am "take an axe out and chop their heads off" kind of girl. :D Like everyone, I am not sure what will help, but it seems that the Police is not capable to do it on their own.

It is awfully big, though. there have been some incidents in Leeds, and there have been Police helicopters and Police siresn heard everywhere today.

[lydzi.livejournal.com]

Oh conspiracies theories ^^. Always here those ones.

Asha style ^^. Yeah it would be easier indeed :p. Oh I just heard this on the radio. Apparently it's gaining some other cities? They talked about Glasgow and Liverpool o__O. Whut? :o

Stay safe ne!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

It seems Birmingham suffered - some of the pictures of the city centre are quite bad, and also as according to BBC "Birmingham, Liverpool, Nottingham and Bristol also experience disturbances". Apparently the rioters use Blackberry messaging service.

I know there have been some smaller incidents in Leeds (following from a man being shot in the face) , but it was smaller. The helicopters at night were quite disturbing, though. :D

[lydzi.livejournal.com]

following from a man being shot in the face

WTF? :o :o :o :o

But what do they do that for?

This is far worse than what happenned in Paris then. There was violence but it was directed to the police mostly and there was a purpose (kind of). Shooting someone on the face is just bad :/.

Wow. I felt that London changed a lot (I was going to write about this in my next entry) but now I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't not only a physical change but also a certain mood. Crappy crap, I really hope it will be ok soon and everyone will come back to their senses.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think the man shot was a gang thig in one of leeds gang areas, Chapeltown. This is not that rare there, but apparently there have been some small incidents there. I am not sure if this was connected.

It is mostly about burning and looting in London, it seems, some places are quite central, like Oxford Circus.

[raffaella.livejournal.com]

I don't remember it being as bad here, in 2005 and later. Part of it was that it happened in the banlieues, in places where there weren't that many shops and businesses to loot. And part of it was that, as you say, it was mostly youths facing the police and burning cars, but there wasn't as much destruction and no deaths. I don't even know what to make of this.

[lydzi.livejournal.com]

I don't too. Everyone was making a fuss about it in the medias though. I remember friends phoning me and asking me if I was allright and if I wanted to take shelter in their home. The medias were makin it huge big time outside, it was quite funny almost.

British always striked me as more level-headed than french, so that's why I'm a bit "are they for real?" when I first read about what's happening in London. But never trust the calm water I guess ^^. I still think that the medias are making it a bit more dramatic than it is like they did for Paris before.

I hope so at least.

[shapinglight]

Calling in the army really is the last resort. I hope it won't come to that.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

One part of me clings to non-military resolition and another part wants to "chop their heads off".

There have been incidents everywhere last night, even here, in Leeds.

[raffaella.livejournal.com]

I didn't expect to see something like this happen so fast in England. I remember that there were riots in the 80s, like in Brixton, but I was a kid so I don't know if this is comparable. Plus that was a while ago, and I always thought the social tensions and the potential for violence weren't as bad as in France. I don't even know what to say.

I can't get a clear idea from the media -- is this happening in localised areas of big cities or is it more widespread? I'm asking because a few years ago, the "Paris" riots didn't take place in Paris proper, "just" in some localised poor suburbs (it was bad enough, though), which meant that if you lived and worked in Paris intra-muros, you wouldn't have thought anything was happening. This looks worse, if only because they've burned buildings and there are deaths already.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Me too. I don't watch news all that often, so I found out about this yesterday from LJ, but it seems that the situation has escalated since then.

You can follow the progress on BBC special page, here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675.

This is a map of riots on Google maps:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7

The most central place I know is Oxford Circus - I have been there , when vising London.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty shocked as well. Sure, we're used to having demonstrations and sometimes even small riots in Western Europe, but usually it's not that bad. As far as I remember the riots in Paris a while ago weren't quite this bad either. It's a clear sign, though, that a lot of sings are pretty fucked up not just in the UK, but probably also in other European countries in similar situations. There's a lot of discontent, and people feel generally helpless about it, and situations like that can easily escalate. But, yeah, it is pretty frightening. It's not like burning cars and houses is going to change anything or solve any problems.

I think in Western Europe many people just associate any kind of violent police action (let alone sending the army in) with the kind of thing that happens in dictatorships. The idea is that in those regimes people get oppressed, so the government uses the police/army to keep them in line. And democracies are hesitant to do the same, because they usually condemn the police taking strong, even violent action against people when it happens somewhere else. And whenever the police forces DO act like that, there's usually a public outcry about police violence etc. So I think the problem here is indeciveness: they feel like they should be doing something, but they don't want to appear as the bad guys who beat citizens. Especially since, if I heard it correctly, the first riots started because a man was shot by the police. Maybe they're afraid of what will happen if another person gets seriously injured by the police.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is definitely a sign of bad bad times.

I think you awesomely explained why they are reluctant to deploy the army forces. But really, something has to be done. I am anticipating this evening with a bit of a fear - things might just fizzle out, but what if they are not? The bigger this becomes, the harder it will be to make it stop.

[linndechir.livejournal.com]

True. I mean, the longer they do nothing, the more incompetent they look, and the more daring those rioters get because they think they get away with it. It's really worrying, and I'm just very selfishly relieved I'm not actually there.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

It looks calmer today so far (and the Police seems to be more able to contain the outbreaks), so fingers crossed this is the end.

[wistfulmemory.livejournal.com]

I've been worried about you. Please stay safe. You, your family, and Britain are in my thoughts and prayers.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Thank you, dear! I am an eternal optimist - I hope tonight will be much better.

[kittyhawk03.livejournal.com]

'When there is rioting in third-world countries, like China, it is often attributed to the countries' "regime". What are we to attribute the British riots to? Democracy?'

Yes. Democracy, by itself, is not a good thing. Pure Democracy is nothing but gang warfare: my gang is bigger than yours, so I win, and you lose. The loser isn't going to be happy. That's why what's necessary is a constitution that guarantees individual rights, and democracy is only used to choose who enforces the constitution.

What we are seeing in Britain, as in Greece, is people used to living off of the government dole being told they will have to make do with less. They've grown used to the dole, and pulling the rug out from under them makes them angry - so they riot.

It won't stop there. Every Western country is in the same situation. We've promised people more than we can deliver, and the chickens are coming home to roost. We can't give what we don't have.

I just watched what I assume was a British movie the other day, Harry Brown, with Michael Caine. Ever see it? Maybe the government just needs to turn him loose on the rioters for a day or two, and things will settle down. :)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

These are such bad times. And yes, I am a @take their heads off@ person at times. :D

In the happier news , I am watching "Jewel in the Palace" . I am still in the clidhood episodes, but what I have seen is really really good. Thank you for reccomending it. I think "DOng Yi" took a lot from "Dae Jang Geum", though.

[kittyhawk03.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen Dong Yi, but I think it did have the same director as Dae Jang Geum, and possibly a lot of the same actors.

Isn't the little Jang Geum adorable? This was the first K-Drama I ever watched, and I just fell in love with that little girl. I wanted the whole drama to be about her as a child. But then when Lee Young Ae appeared as the adult Jang Geum, it got even better. Just the best character I've seen in any drama.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think they did Dong Yi almost as a re-make of Dae jang Geum. But it is not as if I am complaining - Dong Yi is a very good drama.

I loved the little girl that played little Dong Yi (and she is really good in King of Baking too, hopefully she will grow into a good actress). But I like the adult actress very much too, she is excellent. I had to Google her name because I had a feeling I remember her from somewhere, and I remembered where - she was great in "Lady vengeance" and "Joint Security Area" too.

I am in the episode 15 now and I can safely say - this is going to be a big drama love for me.

A Jewel

[fleurdeleo.livejournal.com]

Hi, there! I just finished Jewel in the Palace today and don't know what to do with myself! Have just gotten into these dramas. Oh, what a wonderful series! And yes, young JG is the cutest little girl ever!!

I had to fill the void, so watched one episode of Queen Seondeok. Have you seen that? Was thinking about watching Dong Yi instead next. Can you advise? Enjoy!

Re: A Jewel

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

YAY! I am so glad someone is watching it too!

Dong Yi is really close to Jewel (if you want a similar thing), but Queen Seon Deok s exceptionally good too!

[endlessdeep.livejournal.com]

I've been keeping an eye on what is going on over there. A childhood friend of my Mom's who lives in Hayes called my Mom today and said it's getting very close to where she lives and she's a little fearful. This is scary business. I think your friend linndechir explained it best. What would be the result of more forceful police or military action to stop the rioting. But I agree, something needs to be done to keep the peace.

There are too many people with nothing and so little with everything they could ever want. Everything is out of balance.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I hope your mum's friend is safe - the things seems to have calmed down since yesterday.

My husband keeps saying that what happened was in the interests of the Police. I don't like conspiracy theories myself, but yes, the outcome will be in their favour, so may be at the beginning they were a little hesitant to react, and when everything escalated so quickly they were purely swamped.

[madame-parker.livejournal.com]

I live in London and while it looks like it's gotten a bit more calm since yesterday, myself and my mother are still living in fear that we'll wake up to our whole building on fire. Also, I'm so angry at these thugs, I want them shot and right now. I don't think I've ever felt so angry in my life and it's got me thinking about the future, a lot.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Yes, I am worrying about the future too now. Are we in for another decade of something like we had in 80s - riots, strikes, etc? Hmm.