My two cents on Athena: the goddess of War

[alexandral]

It seems that we have got the cast for the second installment of "IRIS" (aka your Korean version of "La Femme Nikita", "Alias", "Spooks" and "James Bond" combined) :

* Jung Woo Sung as Lee Jung Woo
* Cha Seung Won as Son Hyuk
* Soo Ae

On my friend list, some like Soo Ae, some don't, and the same goes for Jung Woo Sung. Me? I love all three leads, and apart from the lack of Lee Byun Hun the cast looks like the absolute best cast possible.

Jung Woo Sung is an excellent actor, and although his looks are not my cup of tea entirely, I still love him, he wins on charisma and acting skills.

Cha Seung Won is a very good actor and as hot as it gets.

Soo Ae is also very good at acting (a welcome change from Kim Tae Hee) and pretty to the boot.

I like the cast, but I am still not convinced that the world needs an another installment of IRIS.

This is my main question - I know "IRIS" was incredibly popular in Korea (and I like it too because who wouldn't like Lee Byun Hun's abs?). But! Do shows like "La Femme Nikita", "Alias" or "Spooks" find their way to Korean TV? They are definitely shown in Russia, so I would expect them to be shown in Korea as well. I am really surprised that the usual comments on IRIS go the way "Oh!!!!!!!! I have never seen anything like this!!!!!!!!!". You see, I have seen many things exactly like "IRIS" and I totally don't get these remarks.

Comments

[blanqa.livejournal.com]

I was so surprised when I found out Jung Woo-sung was doing a drama role. He never does dramas! I'm not too excited about drama sequels, however, Jung Woo-sung... that guy... I love him and he was the one who got me into k-movies in the first place years ago. So I'm willing to see how Athena works out. I don't have anything against the other cast members either^^

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I know! He is such a huge film star - they are lucky to get him!!!!!!!!!!!

[intermezzo]

I'm SO excited about this drama that I can even begin to say how much. *g* I remember when casting news for IRIS come out I wasn't interested (there was too much hype imho), but then I watched it and I admit I was rather foolish in dismissing it without even seeing it. But with Athena? I swear I cannot wait. For starters, I looooove CSW. Before City Hall I had no idea who he was, but he totally won me over with that one drama and now I'm a devoted fan. XD

As for Jung Woo Sung, he's simply amazing. I was startled when I heard he'd be in the drama, but oh so excited.

Both male leads are good actors so I'm not worried about their acting, but I kind of am for the writing/storyline. I don't want a perfect villain and a perfect hero; I want both to be flawed and conflicted and OMG lsdjlajsdfklsjflds just thinking about what it could be I get excited all over again. MUST.NOT.DO.THAT! I'm setting myself up for a hard fall, am I not?

Anyway, I think tptb will ride Iris fame and they might do a drama whose main topics are similar to Iris (an action/spy/thriller kind of thing), but personally? No matter what they say, I won't consider it a proper sequel unless, upon watching it, there are specific mentions to the characters/stories and same locations of Iris. And even then, unless it's a blatant copy of Iris (same story, same twists), I might try to think of both dramas as separate unrelated things. I suspect tptb are adverting it as Iris sequel just to build the hype.

Re: the "I've never seen anything like this" comments. True, there are many American/European tvshows/movies like Iris, but there WASN'T anything like that in Korea before Iris. There have been movies (Swiri is the only one I can think of) and thriller-type dramas (Time btween dog and wolf) with similar topics (spies), but nothing just like Iris with a stellar cast and budget, international locations and so on. No wonder it got so popular. And to asnwer your questions, I don't think that kind of shows were available back then in Korea. Maybe now? But I don't see them as *easily* available. Western tvshow are released, but not as frequently as, say, here where should I choose to do so, I can watch them on national tv stations for free.

PS: I like Soo Ae. She can act. I'm not sure if I want her to be the main lead, though. Hmm *thinks* Yeah, not sure.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I looooove CSW. Before City Hall I had no idea who he was, but he totally won me over with that one drama and now I'm a devoted fan. XD

I love love love him. Isn't he in a new film as well???

I won't consider it a proper sequel unless, upon watching it, there are specific mentions to the characters/stories and same locations of Iris. And even then, unless it's a blatant copy of Iris (same story, same twists), I might try to think of both dramas as separate unrelated things. I suspect tptb are adverting it as Iris sequel just to build the hype.

I have seen it in dangermousie's journal that lee Byun Hum is supposed to be in the cast, so - who knows? but I have e feeling the story is going to be "different but similar".

but there WASN'T anything like that in Korea before Iris.

I would agree to this, but I saw "OMPH! Absolutely revolutionary" praise too much, I am fine with "revolutionary for Korea" part. yes, I started suspecting that Western spy shows are not shown too much in Korea (expensive? too many "Bad Asians" stereotypes?)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think people who say they haven't seen anything like IRIS mean in kdramas.

Also, just because Alias etc are out there, doesn't mean IRIS wouldn't be popular. IRIS took the spy genre story and kdramafied, adopting it to local tastes.

It's sort of like Bollywood - many Bollywood movies are romcoms or action movies. They do really really well in India. But it's not as if India doesn't import Hollywood movies. They import romcoms and action movies. But Hollywood movies never do as well in India as do the local offerings - even if sometimes these local offerings are remakes of Hollywood stuff. Because Bollywood action/romcoms, even when they are remakes of Western stuff, modify it for local tastes.

I think it applies to outsiders who like Bollywood/kdramas, too. I adore IRIS not because it's a unique, never thought of concept before but because someone made a perfect drama for my tastes - I never was too interested in Western spy stuff but in modifying it for kdrama audience the blend created a perfect kdrama for me. Just as I don't remember last time I enjoyed a Hollywood romcom but I devour Bollywood ones - that little fillip of extra modification really works for me.

[darkeyedwolf.livejournal.com]

IAWTC. I've certainly never seen anything like IRIS before -- from a kdrama. It really raised the bar and all the big-budget A-list dramas that came before it look like child's play.

(Not that I don't understand your exasperation, alexandral, I feel the same way about Cinderella Unni sometimes. It's awesome and I'm enjoying it but my flist seems caught on this idea that the drama gender swap has never ever been done before, which makes me roll my eyes. I have to kinda block out fandom to enjoy the show on its own merits.)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I agree with "nothing like this in Kdrama" bit, but because the "kdrama" part usually gets lost in the dithyrambs, I object.

I like "Cindrella's Unni" comparison . Personally haven't seen anyone saying that CU is anything original (as I see a lot with IRIS), most people on my friends list just like it, but our friends lists are different. However, "Cinderella's Unni" is exactly like "IRIS" for me – both dramas give me that "I have seen all this before" feeling, but the main lead's acting and charisma in both cases is so good that the dramas becomes great for me. Take Lee Byun Hun out of IRIS – I would have never even looked at it twice. The same with CU – take Moon Geun Young out of it, and it would have been just the usual drama.


Also - I get the part "I have to kinda block out fandom to enjoy the show on its own merits" part. I still enjoy IRIS and it is on the list of my favourites, but sometimes I feel as if the un-deserved praise takes my enjoyment away.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think people who say they haven't seen anything like IRIS mean in kdramas.

I think I am just a sticker for linguistics here.

I understand how someone can love IRIS, but I guess I just want a hint of "we have taken it all from these pesky Western shows" (which of course happened in reality) from the creators.

I guess I am just bitter that "IRIS got all that recognition during the latest awards and "Chuno" didn't. :D

And I can argue this to the ground, but for me, it is Lee Byun Hun who make IRIS what it is. take him away - you will get just a replica of Western shows (which will be fine, but not stellar) . So I am reasonably cautious how this is going to work with new installment. there is a hope, though - they got another very charismatic star as a lead.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

a hint of "we have taken it all from these pesky Western shows" (which of course happened in reality) from the creators.


But how would they insert this hint into the drama itself without shattering fourth wall or becoming tongue-in-cheek which is something that wouldn't work for a serious drama?

As to interviews etc, I have no idea if they ever said anything one way or another - but it's not as if it's a secret and I don't think they've been going around saying this is the most unique thing ever done by man.

Re: LBH making IRIS. True, I think he is in large part responsible for it being so good (which is why they are smart and got JWS for the sequel). But honestly, I just like that kind of drama anyway - I know you don't, but I like revenge/action dramas even when they star actors who aren't as phenomenal (see my love for Green Rose or Swallow the Sun). I happen to like those tropes when they are kdramafied or Bollywoodofied, even if I don't care for them in Western stuff.

I guess I am just bitter that "IRIS got all that recognition during the latest awards and "Chuno" didn't. :D

I adored Chuno but IRIS did something to me, emotionally, that few things have done before or since, for some reason, so I was all for it winning. On a more objective note - when the dramas were nominated/voted on, Chuno wasn't even done airing. That certainly put it at a disadvantage.

Also, this reminds me - since withs2 subs are out, I am watching eps 21-24 of Chuno with my husband and even he wants to ff through slave rebellion. They really dropped the ball with that storyline. But oh, Song Tae Ha! Still so wonderful!

I think I am just a sticker for linguistics here.

I always find it's implied, it doesn't need to be stated. But if you want to be a purist, it's still correct to say they've never seen anything like this before anywhere - "this" being a mix of Western spy stuff and Korean melodrama.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

As to interviews etc, I have no idea if they ever said anything one way or another - but it's not as if it's a secret and I don't think they've been going around saying this is the most unique thing ever done by man.

Hmm, I don't know, this is exactly the sentiments I am getting from the interviews and such.

But honestly, I just like that kind of drama anyway - I know you don't, but I like revenge/action dramas even when they star actors who aren't as phenomenal (see my love for Green Rose or Swallow the Sun). I happen to like those tropes when they are kdramafied or Bollywoodofied, even if I don't care for them in Western stuff.

Yes, I think we discussed this before. May be because I really quite like this genre and Western shows provide enough of it, so I have seen much of it in USA/UK shows - no I don't like it in a drama too much. Purely objectively, I take first three seasons of "Spooks" and "IRIS", compare them, and I don't get any favourable comparison for IRIS. To add to injury, I have been re-watching bits of "Spooks" sporadically and you know what - all the settings (in the spy organization) are literally taken out of Spooks.

And ** gasp ** IRIS doesn't do much for me emotionally, not mush at all (but this is subjective). I like it in "pretty, competent spy story, awesome bang-bang, Lee Byun Hun" way. Emotionally - doesn't touch me. This is why it is taking me too long to watch it.

In comparison, all my other "Big Faves" - Chuno, legend, Mawang did a lot for me emotionally as well as were good "food for thought".

Also, this reminds me - since withs2 subs are out, I am watching eps 21-24 of Chuno and even he wants to ff through slave rebellion. They really dropped the ball with that storyline.

I know one person - linfer, who liked the slave storyline, but yes, this is why I gave "Chuno" 9 out of 10, not 10/10 as it deserved otherwise.

But oh, Song Tae Ha! Still so wonderful!

They really developed his character (and Dae Gil's too). You really can see what they are inside in the latest eps. LOVE LOVE LOVE. The ending wraps everything so perfectly. I think "Chuno" has the best drama ending I have seen.

This is another point with IRIS - why did Lee Byun Hun have to die? I know- evil spy org., etc.etc. But the same goes for Tae Ha, for example. It is more of "is the world better with Lee Byun hun's character in it?" - the answer is "Yes". So - why?????????????????????????????????????????

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Don't kill me - I tried Spooks and got really really bored :) I think Western shows and me don't mix at all unless they are fantasy or scifi.

Re: IRIS ending. It totally made sense. Just as it would have made sense to kill TH even though I would have hated it. I looooove tragic endings. Loooooove. TH is a lot saner than LBH's character was by the end of their respective dramas though so maybe in part that's why.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think if TH died in "Chuno" , it would have almost killed my liking for the drama, because the whole point of the story was "there is always hope in life, you and your life is this hope. Even if nothing shifted in big way, the way you live your personal life is what matters." I think i personally identify with this world POV a lot.

I kind of agree that IRIS is a different kettle of fish, it's story is more of "evil organizations rule the world. You are just a little screw, no matter how good you are". This is often the point of Western shows, actually.

And yes, LBH's character is different to Tae Ha (but then again - it all goes back to childhood and lee Byun Hun 's was horrid).

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

You know which bleak ending I wish I could change even though narratively it fits? Mawang. Because I think there really was hope for both of them, at the end, and even though it was perfect how things came full circle, it didn't have to end that way - just some really awful luck.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Agree. I thought it could have been better if they just hugged each other at the end or something. But again - the story was a kind of Big Tragedy (as in Greek one) - REVENGE. UNLUCKY CIRCUMSTANCES. I knew they both going to die from the word go. This would have been lost.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

That's about how I feel about Legend. I liked it quite a bit, but all the hype confused me as I watched, because it was the standard fantasy plotline with the standard coming-of-age fantasy hero, only taking place in Korean history, which did make it fresher. (Moreso than Generic Fantasy Hero Plot...but in magic school!) The only thing that really seemed different or interesting beyond the norm for dozens of fantasy novels that I've read for me was the Ho Gae and Ki Ha plotline.

As far as Athena goes, I only have a passing interest in it, not having seen Iris yet, but the Soo Ae casting news is the only thing to really spark my interest aside from the Ha Ji Won rumors. (Now, if they'd both been cast as female leads...)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think I can see a point in what you are saying about "Legend", but "Lgeand", as "Chuno" broke for me few very annoying Kdrama stereotypes, as well as other fantasy story stereotypes (as you say: they have got decent story for secondary leads!!!!!! Whare have I seen this done much?? Nowhere!)

I love Soo Ae (and I love Ha Ji Won rumors). i wonder who they are going to cast as "other girl", though. there must be someone.

[amandioka.livejournal.com]

Maybe they mean "I have never seen anything like this [made in Korea]"?? It's the only explanation I could find...

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

yes, I think this waht they mean. but Korea is tiny, and in comparison - I have seen plenty of similar things done in other countries.

TL;DR

[sodahands.livejournal.com]

I love Soo Ae. I think she's a great actress and I think she'll do a lot better than KTH who imho had a great character that her acting didn't really live up to (she did okay but she could've been better) and Kim So Yun pretty much blew her out of the water.

I like the cast, but I am still not convinced that the world needs an another installment of IRIS.
Y'know I've been thinking about why I'm not as crazy about IRIS as the rest of my flist and I think it's because I've seen it all before in Western shows and it had all these kdrama elements that I'm not too fond of fused together to make something that the more I think about the more I don't care for all that much. Legend had this team dynamic and a sense of fun/humour and I really like that. Same with The Slingshot & Capital Scandal. Mawang was serious and tragic and bleak but it was complex and subtle in a way IRIS wasn't (imo). And that's the thing. IRIS had a lot going for it but it was just missing a little something and other than KSY's character I feel like maybe I wasn't as emotionally invested in the characters or the story by the end (maybe it's because I read all the spoilers and waited like 3 months before watching the last few eps). Unlike all the other dramas I mentioned which pretty much left me in a state where I didn't want them to end and couldn't watch other dramas because they just made that much of an impression on me IRIS didn't do that to me. I was sad that LBH's character had to die like that and it sucked that KTH's character was just standing there waiting for him but I managed to move on pretty quickly. So while I agree that IRIS is a solid drama and deserves a lot of the praise it didn't really bring anything new to the table for me and if you took away LBH and KSY I would probably not even finish watching it.

Re: TL;DR

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

You know, I agree with every single word you say.

but I thought more about it - may be a new chance at "IRIS", with Soo Ae and Jung Woo Sung - this may be can be nice?

Legend had this team dynamic and a sense of fun/humour and I really like that. Same with The Slingshot & Capital Scandal.

yes, this was a very strong side of "Legend" and "Capital Scandal" in particular - the ensemble feel, the fast that the secondary characters were as important as the main ones. I love it too.

Mawang was serious and tragic and bleak but it was complex and subtle in a way IRIS wasn't (imo).

Mawang and "Slingshot" really have very very good stories (hence the remake). They also appeal to me because I like psychological stuff. Chuno is like this too - I like strange things that happen in human brain.

Re: TL;DR

[sodahands.livejournal.com]

may be a new chance at "IRIS", with Soo Ae and Jung Woo Sung - this may be can be nice?
I hope so but I don't actually have any plans of checking it out.

yes, this was a very strong side of "Legend" and "Capital Scandal" in particular - the ensemble feel, the fast that the secondary characters were as important as the main ones. I love it too.
YES! You said it better than I did. I just love that. I wish more of the secondary characters got a chance to shine in IRIS but then again I didn't care about any of them the way I liked the secondary characters in Legend and Capital Scandal. To me they weren't as interesting or fleshed out.

They also appeal to me because I like psychological stuff. Chuno is like this too - I like strange things that happen in human brain.
Same here! I loved the fact that in those stories everything wasn't black & white. There was a lot of grey which is something I really really love in my stories. They were complex and every character had flaws. I really hoped that in IRIS Hyun Joon's best friend joining the dark side wasn't just about a girl but more than that. That was pretty disappointing to me.
Ooh must start watching Chuno again if it's got some psychological drama.

Re: TL;DR

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I wish more of the secondary characters got a chance to shine in IRIS but then again I didn't care about any of them the way I liked the secondary characters in Legend and Capital Scandal. To me they weren't as interesting or fleshed out.

Yes, I agree. I think TOP fitted his character well ** gasp **, but as you, I expected more from Hyun Joon's best friend! Jin Sa-woo is such an excellent actor, he was totally miscast.

Chuno!!!!!!!!! It has that ensemble feel too. Even some of quite small characters are fleshed out beautifully.

[ginger001]

I'm excited just because Jung Woo Sung is there... love the guy and must thank dangermousie for mentioning him in her posts so I got curious enough to go check something where he starred... I chose A Moment to Remember and felt in love ;)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I have seen him in "The Good, the bad and The Weird" - Lee Byun Hoon and Song Kang-ho steal the film from the "good" guy, but nonetheless he looks gorgeous (even though his looks don't entirely fit my taste, if this makes sense!).