Battlestar Galactica grump, "The Eye of Jupiter"

[alexandral]

BSG, oh BSG! You gave me hope in “Unfinished Business” of great things to come, but not long since and the balloon of my happiness is lying on the floor, old and shrunk.

Because:
Lee, Kara and Anders
Just to say from the start, I don’t like unfaithfulness in real or imaginary life, it is just not my thing. Now I start being all dramatic – What are you doing with my Lee, R.Moore? Why are you turning him into unfaithful man? And also – Why don’t you even show us his tortures of conscience, or how the “first time” happened? I am really tired of time jumps and the fact that everything important seems to be happening off-screen.

I will not be able to like him anymore because his principles is something I like the most about him, and when they gone – OH WHAT I AM GOING TO DO?. Plus Lee/Anders scenes make me cringe every time , seeing how much taller (in physical and moral sense) Anders is (Update: supposed to be) then Lee. Update: I personally don't think Anders has any high ground to stand upon (he let Kara go, for goodness sake!), but it happens that the mood and the manner of the scene seems to be filmed in his favour, with him looming over Lee like a barge.


Sharon
Another thing made me very uncomfortable – Sharon against Sharon. I have a huge question in my mind about this!!

After "The Eye of the Jupiter", I can not understand why Sharon-the-mother was so against Sharon-Boomer. I would be grateful if someone can explain to me why. Obviously, at this point of time, as a part of delegation, Sharon-Boomer was not more dangerous then Six or any other Cylon. And Sharon-the-mother’s grassing on your own "sister" did grate me the wrong way. She turned completely against her own race???????????????? This is very puzzling. I can understand that someone can become loyal to the Other Side, but I find unbelievable that he/she will loose any feeling for her own kin. Is this an indication of the fact that she is the machine and her feelings are indeed somehow impaired?

Also I was wondering (and probably everyone was discussing this long time ago) - do Cylons grow old?? It doesn't seem to be the fact....

The other surprising thing was how calm Sharon was when she was told that her child is indeed alive. Me? I would have scratched Adama’s eyes out, or at least attempted to. To be honest, this is one of my “big” questions – how developed Cylon's feelings are as androids. They obviously have feelings, and they are a thinking race. Up to now all the differences between Cylons and Humans were presented as physical, but if there is a difference in physical sphere, must be a difference in emotional sphere too. I could be totally wrong here, I am just wondering.

Or is Sharon's behaviour due to the fact that Sharon is trying to be "more faithful then faithful"?

Comments

[ancarett]

Well, on the morality issue, it appears that Lee is not entirely lost. He wants them to come clean with their respective partners, ending their marriages and taking up with each other. It's Kara who holds to an empty sense of morality and refuses to take the honest step of admitting that, hiding behind the "sacramental" argument.

I don't see Anders as moral. I see him as bitter and angry. I see him as taking a high horse on morality where he really doesn't have that authority. He may still be married to Kara but she's cut him out of her life ("Collaborators" in that respect). That's obviously upsetting to him, but he takes it out in angry, nasty attacks on Kara and Lee that don't stand well with me.

As for Athena, I see her not attacking Adama because he's clearly placed himself on her side. He came to her as soon as he had confirmation of Hera's survival. When Helo attacked Adama, I thought that Bill's quiet comment that at least they knew their child was still alive was pretty much to the point. They still have hope. He has none since he lost Zak. And he's faced with the prospect of losing Lee, to the action of his own hand. Not easy.

I think that Athena's placing blame where blame is due -- on Laura Roslin and her decision to take that child away. Goodness knows it's about time that Roslin faced up to the evils of her actions.

Anyhoo, wandering back off to mark more essays. . . .

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Well, on the morality issue, it appears that Lee is not entirely lost. He wants them to come clean with their respective partners, ending their marriages and taking up with each other. It's Kara who holds to an empty sense of morality

You see, Kara's morality became warped long long time ago and just another drop doesn't worry me that much. I may be misunderstood something as well - I thought that Kara and Lee had sex already (and I don't mean that time on New Caprica). What do you think?

takes it out in angry, nasty attacks on Kara and Lee that don't stand well with me.

I guess this is what is disturbing me - that Anders doesn't have a right to be doing this, but it is just filmed in particular way, with the visual symbolism of Andres looming over Lee and Lee looking "up to him", so the scene has a feeling of Lee being on the wrong side.

As for Athena, I see her not attacking Adama because he's clearly placed himself on her side.

Interesting, I will think of this. Makes sense. I guess my own reaction would have been to blame EVERYONE. May be Sharon understood that Adama was not involved. Still - where is her profound grief???

Thank you very much for the info!!!

[raincitygirl.livejournal.com]

Yup. It definitely felt like the director/writer knew who they wanted the audience to root for in the Lee/Anders confrontation, and shot the scene accordingly. Which, on the one hand, yeah, Sam is the wronged party here, but on the other hand, I resent being steered towards a conclusion by the show. It feels like cheating. And shouldn't be necessary. If they don't feel the scene as written expresses what they want ot convey re: Anders = victim; Lee Adama = louse, maybe they should rewrite the scene as opposed to resorting to cheap shortcuts to load the dice. Or allow it to be a complicated, morally ambiguous mess in which nobody comes off smelling like a rose, not even the wronged parties. Ya know, like real life. I heartily disapprove of Kara and Lee going behind Sam's back. Doesn't mean he (sam) has to be perfect in order for him to get my sympathy when his marriage is imploding.

As for Sharon, I really wish we'd gotten an explanation for why and how Boomer went from a recluse holed up in her apartment and rejecting everything Cylon, to totally committed to the Cylon cause. I can fanwank her anger at Sharon-the-mother as being resentful that she was rejected by all her old friends, and another copy is not only walking around with her memories, but took her place as 'the one good, trustworthy Cylon'. Plus, the Colonials (or some of them) obviously don't trust Sharon the way she thought they did, or they never would've taken her baby away. So there could be an element of, "Oh, you think you're so much better than me and everybody loves you. Hah!"

But it would be nice not to have to come up with possible reasons for major character shifts. Seeing 'em onscreen would be kind of the whole point of television. The Boomer/Sharon confrontation was woefully underwritten. Them meeting face-to-face for the first time should've been a big deal. But Boomer DID tell her about Hera, even if the delivery was crabby. None of the other emissaries seemed to have the slightest intention of doing so, not even Baltar. Sharon's status as Hera's biological mother means no more to them than it does to Roslin. So whatever Boomer's reasons (spiteful taunting, seeking to sow discord, worry re: Hera's deteriorating health, sharing info she thought Sharon had a right to), she helped Helo and Sharon. Whether she intended to or not. Shame the scene wasn't written a little better. Then we wouldn't have to take wild guesses.

As for Sharon's under-reaction, I wasn't bothered by it.Both she and Helo were being very quiet in their anger. I'm guessing she was either too in shock or so overwhelmed by the news that she hadn't gotten around to the screaming and the throttling yet. Also, I don't think her lack of reaction to Adama necessarily means she isn't holding a monster grudge, just that she believes Adama wasn't involved in the deception. His words to Roslin were almost identical to Boomer's words to Sharon, which makes me suspect Sharon went straight to him and told him what had been claimed.

I thought she was a little underwhelmed when Boomer first told her, but I guess I can live with it. I can see her plausibly reacting with shock and disbelief at first, and then starting to think it sounds plausible. I mean, D'Anna told her back on New Caprica that Hera was alive, but she didn't give her any details, so it was fairly natural to assume that it was a trick. Boomer was very specific about Hera's whereabouts, and linked her on New Caprica to someone Sharon has every reason to distrust (probably still holding a grudge over the whole forced abortion thing). Plus Sharon presumably knows what other copies of her own model act like when they're lying and when they're sincere. With D'Anna she wouldn't have that sister-like awareness.

But yeah, the ep kind of sucked on multiple levels. It wasn't terrible, but it was sloppy. Sloppy actually irritates me more than full-on dreadfulness. I mean, it's difficult to imagine that any script tweaking could've led to, say, Black Market becoming a watchable episode, let alone a good one. This ep had tons of potential, and didn't use it very effectively.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Doesn't mean he (sam) has to be perfect in order for him to get my sympathy when his marriage is imploding.

I agree in way – I still feel for Anders, though I think that the way he just let Kara go in one of the most difficult moments of her life shown the lack of commitment on his part. Kara was angry with everyone after Leoben’s mind games, but she probably needed some support. Even if she said she doesn’t need it. Where all “for better and for worse” gone. Anders could have given her some space, etc., but giving her dogtags was not a gesture of good husband.

So there could be an element of, "Oh, you think you're so much better than me and everybody loves you. Hah!"

This is very fitting, I like it! The thing I didn’t understand why Athena was so much against Boomer-Sharon. I had a thought that in a way she was trying to distance herself from the Adama’s assassination again. She was saying in a away “It wasn’t me who did it, it was Boomer-Sharon. We are two different personalities.”

she helped Helo and Sharon. Whether she intended to or not. Shame the scene wasn't written a little better. Then we wouldn't have to take wild guesses.

I think also Boomer is worried about the baby’s health, and the baby’s mother is probably the best person to try and figure out what is wrong with her. So Sharon-Boomer is going behind Cylon’s back. They didn’t just “forget” to mention about the baby, it was their intention to never tell. Because now the humans will be trying to rescue the child.

His words to Roslin were almost identical to Boomer's words to Sharon, which makes me suspect Sharon went straight to him and told him what had been claimed.

Again, it could be a bit easier if they shown us a little more about everyone’s reaction to such an important event!!!

But yeah, the ep kind of sucked on multiple levels. It wasn't terrible, but it was sloppy. Sloppy actually irritates me more than full-on dreadfulness

I wan’t particular keen on the “Eye of Jupiter” and temple of Jupiter. It seems like they are bringing all the religions together (oh, what a good trick after “Matrix”). But again, I wasn’t keen on the “Tomb of Athena” too. All the sci-fi/mythical elements in BSG are not my thing, they are too dated and too un-original. But this is just me. I was always watching this show for the character’s sake.

And thank you for your thoughts!

[weissman.livejournal.com]

Agree with your comments on Sharon 100%.
Bob

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I will not be able to like him anymore because his principles is something I like the most about him, and when they gone – OH WHAT I AM GOING TO DO?. Plus Lee/Anders scenes make me cringe every time , seeing how much taller (in physical and moral sense) Anders is then Lee.

But all they've done is kiss - and Lee breaks it off because he won't cheat. How does that make him unprincipled? I think the whole point of the Kara/Lee love story isn't that it's pretty, but that it's real - and in real life, sometimes people are unbearably drawn to things that are both bad for them and morally compromised (Anna Karenina, for example!) and that they then suffer and pay the consequences. And Lee is certainly suffering ... I actually find Starbuck's position more morally troubling because if you take an oath, then breaking the SPIRIT of it is worse than not breaking the letter of it.

As for morality, how is Anders more moral? He WALKED AWAY from the execution of an innocent man without doing one damn thing to stop it. I actually completely loathe him now, for implying that his wife is a big whore and for his whole macho posturing about who knows Kara better and I'll shut up and post that entire screed in my own LJ :P

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

But all they've done is kiss - and Lee breaks it off because he won't cheat.

Did they? Or did they have sex before that? It just seemed to me that way. I am may be going crazy with all the time jumps and missing key scenes. R.Moore - enough of THE time jumps already!. I can bear the flash-backs every now and again, but not the whole time. This is like they are trying to make the story more interesting because they feel the story is not interesting when shown by "normal" means.

That you think they just kissed gives me a huge feeling of relief, THANK YOU QoT. I thought they slept together.

and in real life, sometimes people are unbearably drawn to things that are both bad for them and morally compromised (Anna Karenina, for example!) and that they then suffer and pay the consequences.

I know!! I am just going all crazy with the worry about my Lee, this is all .:D I want us to see more of his tortures of conscience, I guess!!

I actually find Starbuck's position more morally troubling because if you take an oath, then breaking the SPIRIT of it is worse than not breaking the letter of it.

I think this too, but she became morally strange long long time ago, this is just another drop in the ocean.

I actually completely loathe him now, for implying that his wife is a big whore and for his whole macho posturing about who knows Kara better and I'll shut up and post that entire screed in my own LJ

Oh no!! You are very welcome to express any opinions here. :D This is what is annoying me , I think - that somehow because of Lee's indiscretions Anders is given a chance to be all "Do you know what you are doing major?". And the fact that they always film them so close together to show how much TALLER Anders is. (yes, I am totally petty)

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

I have not watched this BSG yet, because in all honesty I am ready to stop seeing Kara and Lee's love decimate all around them. And as I do not like infidelity either (especially this one which sounds so vicious and cruel and isn't just the spectacular fall from grace sort, more the dragged out want it both ways thing) I do not imagine I will enjoy it. I guess that I will get around to it in the end, but I do not expect to enjoy it. *sigh*

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

And as I do not like infidelity either (especially this one which sounds so vicious and cruel and isn't just the spectacular fall from grace sort, more the dragged out want it both ways thing) I do not imagine I will enjoy it.

I think it is "fall from grace" in a way, because they were keeping all this bottled for so long and let it go now. I really enjoyed "Unfinished Business", but "The Eye of Jupiter" was somehow confusing to me. Lee is still my favourite character and I do understand that "bigger then life obsession", but I wish he was sticking to his principles a little bit more.