alexandral | "Rome" episode 6 "Philippi"

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"Rome" episode 6 "Philippi"

Notes on "Rome" episode 6 "Philippi". I liked it very much because I do like "Rome" and it can't do anything wrong for me at the moment, but I had some uneasy and confused feelings about involvement of Pullo and Vorenus into the murder of Cicero and other murders. Historical inaccuracies don’t matter much for me, and even the fact that Vorenus and Pullo are the weapons of the execution of hundreds of innocent citizens do not worry me that much too. This is their job. Though I was expecting Pullo to disagree with the assignment to murder Cicero, especially in the bit where he was nailing Cicero’s hands to the door.

The main thing I am not sure about is the “peaches” scene when Pullo murders Cicero. I don’t know, but Pullo seemed to look quite uncaring what Cicero’s feelings were at that moment and hesitating unnecessarily. And what worries me even more that asking to pick the peaches for his wife from the guy whom you are about to murder is somehow a silly (and quite a cruel) thing to do. And I do not like to see Pullo cruel or silly. ;(

I liked Cicero in this scene, though. He was full of dignity. I thought that may be Cicero's death is in parallel with the death of Brutus in Philippi and the "Philippi" in the title refers to the both of them. A cruel death as an acceptance of their fate.

But a very good thing is that Pullo is totally impervious to Gaia’s charms and sees her through!! I knew this!!!!!!!!!YAY!!! And I have made my mind about Gaia – I DO NOT LIKE HER! She is very bad news and a great stirrer of trouble. And she is trying to cause trouble between everyone.

Even the latest rift between Vorenus and his daughter about the make-up is all Gaia’s doing. Though Vorenus keeps being clueless in how to behave himself with his daughter, smack his head!!!! And the older Vorena’s suitor seems to be very very creepy. And obviously he is working for Memmio.

But I still believe that the differences between Vorenus and his daughter will be resolved, and it was so wonderful to see the younger kids happy at the countryside picnic. And the way Vorenus goes around carrying little Lucius and being very protective of him is so heart-warming! And how little Lucius carries the elephant that Vorenus mended everywhere around with him!

The picnic:

And how sad it was to hear Pullo saying that he doesn’t know where his is coming or going and that the only thing he knows and likes is violence. Very poignant scene, very difficult one because at the same time it is a scene where we see Vorenus and Pullo talking to each other, being that great unit of friends. And among all this, if I understood Pullo correctly, he wants to go and do his own thing. He is not satisfied with being “the second man in Aventive” anymore. I absolutely don’t blame him, but this doesn't mean that I am happy that the boys will go their separate ways.

As a side point, I am not sure what to think about Vorenus’ attempt to make the collegia an honest place. How will it all go? With the enemies like Memmio? From the blood money?

But all this said, it is fabulous to see Pullo and Vorenus together and Vorenus “full of purpose” as Pullo said:

Two picspams of the day

Agrippa and Octavia My little shippy heart is so happy!! This is where I use up my daily allowance of exclamation marks! And I am so warmed up to Maecenas too because though he knows everything about Agrippa and Octavia, he is not saying anything to Octavian. But Agrippa!!! Agrippa is definitely my favourite historucal figure. His gandfather was a slave (is this true?) and his name is written upon the Pantheone for the many generations to see. And I don't want to think about the consequences of Agrippa's and Octavia's love, at all.

Brutus breaks Alexandra’s heart. It is not a spoiler as this episode is named Philippi I guess

EEE! I have blurted this all out! Now I can go and read everyone's posts! And also I should go home and catch up on some sleep!!

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I actually kind of like the peaches scene – I don’t think Pullo is being callous or unfeeling (after all, unlike all the other guys sent to kill the senators, Pullo only takes some peaches - after he asks for them politely – as opposed to looting the man’s house, raping his daughter – poor Jocasta! – etc.) And I think that some of this comes out in his conversation with Eirene later on, because look, he’s a hired killer again, even though his boss is Octavian now, and not Erastes Fulmen, and so he thinks back to a time when he was a killer on more honorable terms in the ranks fo the Thirteenth :P

And I find the scene in Cicero’s garden just quite wonderful actually – the Republic dies like this, quietly, in a sunlit garden, and the killing at Philippi is really just the aftermath.

And absolutely, yes to this idea that Pullo wants something more than to just be remembered as the "Number Two Man" - I think again his conversation with Eirene is telling where he thinks he might be a centurion or a legate if he rejoined the legions. I did love her saying she was "preglant" by the way :P

I loved the picnic too – it was so wonderfully … strange. “Oh, I’m off to kill someone, let’s have a picnic.”

As for Agrippa, his family came from the equestrian rank and were quite wealthy, but no, I don’t think his grandfather was a slave. They were sort of middle-to-lower-class country folk (think of Vorenus as he might have been as magistrate.)

P.S. Your package came yesterday (and I've put it to some use - icons in my latest post!) Although I am having a lot of difficulty figuring out how to do certain things - it's very complicated! - so I might be bugging you for advice. You are such a sweetie-pie! Thank you SO much (and for your extremely clear instructions!)

actually kind of like the peaches scene – I don’t think Pullo is being callous or unfeeling (after all, unlike all the other guys sent to kill the senators, Pullo only takes some peaches - after he asks for them politely – as opposed to looting the man’s house, raping his daughter – poor Jocasta! – etc.)

I have definitely strong feelings on this – for me asking someone “Can I have your peaches for my wife” is really saying “I have a wife and she is alive and I am alive and I will be eating your peaches after you are dead”. It can be either used as a mocking thing, but I don’t think it was intended to be so. I think it was intended to be some sort of allegory, but it sits very badly with me. Because if Pullo is not mocking Cicero (this is so cruel and I don’t think this is what he is doing), it shows Pullo in a silly light, as if he doesn’t understand the implications of what he is saying. Because apart of the above meaning the whole conversation shows Pullo’s complete disrespect for Cicero’s life. He can only think of peaches at the moment of Cicero’s death, peaches are more important then Cicero’s life. ** grrrrrrrrr **

As for rapings, I guess in Cicero’s book nailing his hands to the doors as his arch-enemy Mark Antony wanted is most likely as bad. From his POV it must be a huge dishonor.

And I think that some of this comes out in his conversation with Eirene later on, because look, he’s a hired killer again, even though his boss is Octavian now,

This is another thing that is very confusing, so confusing for me that I think “do I know Pullo?” and I doubt even my everlasting life for the whole production. I believe in conversation with Eirene and Vorenus Pullo says that he LIKES violence. I am very confused!!!! Where is Pullo of the beginning of this season? Is “the old Pullo” out again?

I loved the picnic too – it was so wonderfully … strange. “Oh, I’m off to kill someone, let’s have a picnic.”

This was bizarre. I liked that Vorenus’ younger kids seem to be definitely happier, and even Vorena herself. Thinking about suitors is quite a way from black dark tunnel. And Lyde seems to be talking to Vorenus, even though he still clueless.

As for Agrippa, his family came from the equestrian rank and were quite wealthy, but no, I don’t think his grandfather was a slave.

That was what I suspected, it just seemed unlikely!! Thank you so much for this!!

P.S. Your package came yesterday EEEEEEE! I am so glad!!!! Please ask me anything you want. I will be less present on LJ (some points of my RL are really requiring more of my attention for few month) , so just drop me an e-mail when you want to.

This is another thing that is very confusing, so confusing for me that I think “do I know Pullo?” and I doubt even my everlasting life for the whole production. I believe in conversation with Eirene and Vorenus Pullo says that he LIKES violence. I am very confused!!!! Where is Pullo of the beginning of this season? Is “the old Pullo” out again?

After rewatching this episode a couple of times, I found myself feeling the same confusion re Pullo. Wait a minute (I reminded myself), wasn't he over fighting? There was a contradiction here and I had to figure it out. So here's what I think now. As long as Pullo had a mission, something to fight for (to win Eirene, to help Vorenus) he had no need for soldiering. But now that those personal fights are done, he needs a new mission. The Aventine job isn't enough to satisfy that longing.

When Pullo says to Vorenus "It's good to see you so happy and full of purpose again.", I think that's the key to Pullo's mood. He's lost his purpose. And fighting for Octavian, which he's sworn to do, makes sense to him to fill that void. But Vorenus's happiness is due to the fact he has his children back. After we see Pullo longing for war and violence, he finds out he's going to be a father. We haven't really seen the full effect of that announcement yet on the Pullo/Vorenus household. But maybe with a baby on the way, he'll have found his new purpose in life. Something new to fight for. Rather, to live for.

So here's what I think now. As long as Pullo had a mission, something to fight for (to win Eirene, to help Vorenus) he had no need for soldiering. But now that those personal fights are done, he needs a new mission. The Aventine job isn't enough to satisfy that longing.

Oh, I love this explanation. I think I will adopt it for now and blot “the peaches” out of my memory.

After we see Pullo longing for war and violence, he finds out he's going to be a father.

I was thinking for some reason that the conversation with Vorenus was AFTER he was told that he is going to be a father. Is it before or after? Actually, I had a grudge for Pullo’s behaviour during the scene where Eirene tells him the news. “Oh, these women” is a bit of unusual thing to say. But in my short experience, few men raise to the occasion in a moment like this, even the best of them. So I am not that worried. I will probably re-watch it today, trying to look for all the nuances.

But Vorenus's happiness is due to the fact he has his children back.

Oh, definitely. And really seems to be getting along better with the younger ones. (I am angry with him for shouting at Vorena in a front of everyone).

But maybe with a baby on the way, he'll have found his new purpose in life. Something new to fight for. Rather, to live for.

Oh, I hope so much. Bu in all honesty – I have very bad premonitions on this. I don’t think baby and Eirene will leave. (And I am usually optimistic!!!)

I watched it again. Talking to Vorenus was BEFORE the pregnancy revelations, sorry!

Because apart of the above meaning the whole conversation shows Pullo’s complete disrespect for Cicero’s life. He can only think of peaches at the moment of Cicero’s death, peaches are more important then Cicero’s life

Oh, I totally disagree. I think he is treating Cicero as a human being - unlike the other men whom Vorenus sent to kill the Senators, whom he allowed to loot (and rape - poor Jocasta!) and slaughter without mercy. The fact that Pullo has the courtesy to ask if he can take the peaches (rather than grabbing them after Cicero is dead) is actually much more respectful to me. It's not unfeeling - just that for Pullo it is the luck of the draw; if Cicero/Brutus/Cassius had won, then someone like Pullo would be at Atia's house, plunging a sword into the necks of Antony and Octavian and Agrippa. Fortuna favors one side, then the other.

I guess in Cicero’s book nailing his hands to the doors as his arch-enemy Mark Antony wanted is most likely as bad. From his POV it must be a huge dishonor.

And no, I don't think nailing Cicero's hands to the Senate door is NEARLY as bad as raping his daughter would have been - for one thing, he is already dead. (Plus, historically, Fulvia, Antony's wife, ran his tongue through with a sword - the gesture is because his tongue and his hands - for writing - were the weapons that he used against Antony.) And he already knew, I think that this would happen if Antony "won." I think Cicero almost dies content, because he believes his message will get to Brutus and Cassius in time.

Pullo says that he LIKES violence. I am very confused!!!! Where is Pullo of the beginning of this season? Is “the old Pullo” out again?

Well, the same Pullo who tenderly took care of Vorenus is also the one who participated in the bloody slaughter of Erastes Fulmen's men. I don't think it's an either/or situation with these two men - both Pullo and Vorenus are men of violence and they have ALWAYS been men of violence because these are the times they live in (Vorenus, though he personally kills no one in this episode, is of course the one who orders the murders of hundreds of people without any compunction and of course all the little side-crimes like the rape of Jocasta are also a part of that order - and in the same episode, he is extremely tender and kind and gentle with his children.) I don't see this as a contradiction - I think these two elements in the personalities of Pullo and Vorenus have been there all along. It is just difficult to watch them kill people who are more likeable than Erastes!

What strikes me is that Pullo does not want to be an assassin any more - there is honor in being a soldier, and a structure and honor to the violence of being a soldier. Pullo once told Erastes Fulmen that he was a soldier, not a murderer - and then of course, he became a murderer for Erastes, and then after he came out of the arena, sorry for all the 'bad things' that he did, he is now again a murderer, even if this time it is for Octavian and for Vorenus. When he was in the Thirteenth, it is a different kind of violence, not the killing of unarmed and defenseless people.

Now, onto the Vorenus family dynamic - yes, Vorena is much happier (and I like that Vorenus has hired a kind of governess to watch his daughters) but I do not think that Vorenus is himself the cause. She's still furious with him - and I think the scene where he makes her take off the makeup (I too loathe Gaia) is kind of fraught with tension, so flirting with that guy is a way to get back at her father. But I do agree that he really seems to have a lovely bond with little Lucius. Perhaps this boy will be the one to 'save' Vorenus somehow (and Vorenus of course can easily adopt him to make him his heir - this is very common in Roman history, so Augustus adopted Livia's son Tiberius, for example.)

The fact that Pullo has the courtesy to ask if he can take the peaches (rather than grabbing them after Cicero is dead) is actually much more respectful to me.

For me, it is not that he took them with or without asking, it is that he did think about peaches more then about the other man’s death (and more important, voiced it!). Especially such an important politically man; and not noticing that he is important is showing Pullo to be a simpleton. I think that even THINKING about the peaches right at the moment of someone’s death is sort of disrespectful. It is true, I remember thinking about all kinds of silly things during funerals, we can’t help these things sometimes, but voicing things like that is a different thing. I don’t like Pullo looking “simple” here, but I guess I was just reading something into his character that was not there. We have to agree to disagree. :D

And no, I don't think nailing Cicero's hands to the Senate door is NEARLY as bad as raping his daughter would have been - for one thing, he is already dead.

Again, can we agree to disagree? She is at least ALIVE and can do something about it in the future. Cicero can’t do anything! His corpse is dishonoured for centuries!!!

I think Cicero almost dies content, because he believes his message will get to Brutus and Cassius in time.

I think he realises that this is THE END and there is no other way and accepts it, but I didn’t see him being content. He was scared, very scared. But he was glad that he managed to send the letter, I agree.

I don't see this as a contradiction - I think these two elements in the personalities of Pullo and Vorenus have been there all along. It is just difficult to watch them kill people who are more likeable than Erastes!

That I guess what I wanted to see – for them to be more conscious about the murders!!! But arynsnx made a good explanation of this and “Pullo liking violence”, I am going to adopt it for now.

there is honor in being a soldier, and a structure and honor to the violence of being a soldier

This is what is confusing for me, actually – that Pullo looked very sad viewing the fields of Mutina. I took is that he saw the ugly side of war and any sort of violence. But I guess I was just reading into something again.

Now, onto the Vorenus family dynamic - yes, Vorena is much happier (and I like that Vorenus has hired a kind of governess to watch his daughters) but I do not think that Vorenus is himself the cause. She's still furious with him

Oh, yes, I agree, but I was glad to see her getting better! Vorenus is still clueless, but I am still VERY hopeful that he and his daughter are going to be reconciled.

But I do think there will be some terrible horror for Pullo’s baby and Eirene

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"Rome" episode 6 "Philippi"

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