Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy

[alexandral]

This was a rare occasion – we went to watch a movie with Mr.Alexander! He has a no-nonsense attitude towards films and TV , and a film has to be really good for him to watch. He is my litmus paper as far as films are concerned, so I was really happy that he liked “Tinker, Taylor..”



Starting with the best thing, the film was impeccably well-made, with great attention to detail. The usual big problem with USA and British spy films is their total disregard for foreign languages and people of foreign nationalities. Japanese people are always cast as Koreans (or Chinese) and vice versa. Mexican people are often cast as Spanish. Polish people are cast as Russians. The languages suffer badly too. I don’t know about other languages, but as far as Russian is concerned, in 99.999% of USA/British spy films the spies speak Russian terrible enough for any babushka from Moscow to uncover their identity. The state of Russian language in spy films and TV shows is often so bad that you can’t even understand it without subtitles ("Nikita" and "Salt", I am looking at you, and this is one of the reasons I am not very enthusiastic about the new Nikita).

May be no-one cares for this but my foreign self. But I often ponder why such an abhorring state of foreign languages is allowed to exist. Surely, there must be a reason for this. I can’t quite imagine a USA (or British) film director who won’t hope that her/his film will be shown in other countries. The most logical explanation I can see is "They do not care". But I care! The bad state of Russian language usually makes USA (and British) spy films ridiculous. And I don’t take "this is because of the costs" explanations seriously, because I am sure that Russian actors will jump to any chance to appear in USA films and I know that Russian actors don’t get paid as much as USA actors.

But it seems that a huge tectonic shift is happening, because as far as Russian language is concerned, “Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy” was perfect. They even employed Russian actors for the roles of Russians! This was such a surprise! The world is changing and I hope this is not just a fluke. Or may be this is just because the director Tomas Alfredson is Swedish? May be. In any case, "Tinker, Taylor .." had such a wonderful attention to every detail and such a fabulous visual feel that you were immersed in the 70s, the paranoia of the time almost palpable.

As far as acting is concerned, I liked Garry Oldman, with the only small note that he does seem to be one of those actors who play the same role in every film. But he is well overdue some serous recognition, so I hope he will get some awards for his role. But my personal favourite in this film was Mark Strong who was purely heart-breaking.

I guessed the identity of the Russian spy because it was quite obvious. One out of four suspects had more screen time and a better developed character than the other three (and was played by a better known actor). I thought this was a small minus overall as it could have been better, I think, if the other three suspects were given a little bit more attention. But at the same time, I guess this film is an adaptation of a well-known book, so may be the majority of the viewers are spoiled for the identity of the spy anyways, so this doesn’t really matter.

The ending was fabulous and Mark Strong / Colin Firth OTP was incredible. Overall, this was a fabulous "thinking" film, the one to watch when you can give it the full attention (there were so many "blink and you miss it" moments) and both my husband and I loved it. From my own point of view, the lack of anti-Russian propaganda , and the fact that there were no "good" and "bad" sides in the struggle between the spy organizations were particular appreciated.

Comments

[rachel2205.livejournal.com]

I really loved it and like you I really liked the attention to detail for languages. So tired of seeing films where the foreign characters speak in English with heavy accents! The whole film was really carefully put together in terms of period detail, I thought. Really good!

And I really enjoyed Gary Oldman. I like that in recent years he's been doing these more serious roles - I remember when all Gary Oldman did was these incredibly over the top roles like Dracula which are fun but not exactly great acting... I thought the whole ensemble was really good, though, so I didn't have a particular favourite.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I am so glad that this wasn't "just me". All the other cultural references were spot on too - the moment when Lenin appeared in MI6 new Year (or Christmas?) celebration and the hymn of USSR started playing was so hilarious but at the same time was such a clever parody (they used to play the hymn of USSR during New year celebrations in USSR) . I wonder if this scene was in the book.

I also loved how simple, even "innocent" everything used to be before computers and mobile phones.

I liked Garry too, but this roles seems to be similar to his role in "Batman begins" and some other recent films: very reserved, and very perspicacious. It is as if he is stuck in another cliche now. But he WAS good, and I hope he gets many awards.

Edit: Mark Strong has won me for life in the scene with an owl.

[bond-girl.livejournal.com]

BUT IT'S NOT COMING UNTIL DECEMBER 9TH HERE. *bites toast in frustration* Also, Tom Hardy and Cumberbatch! Do want :))

And I know, right? One thing is not hiring Russian actors, another is botching all Russian spelling/grammar in the movies. It's not that hard, Hollywood. The US Russians would line up, four deep, to translate for you.

Viggo Mortensen in Eastern Promises was incredibly good though, I thought?

The only time I saw a hilarious nod to the Russian speakers was in one of the episodes of Stargate SG-1. There is a scene where Russian submarine sailors are supposed to just mumble in the background but not only they spoiler you for the plot twist, they also break the fourth wall! They tell to each other that "these weird sounds is the monster from the last episode" :DD. Which it is.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

OH NO HOW SO???? Both Tom Hardy and Cumberbatch were wonderful ! 9I am more interested in the older guys, but these were great!)

yes, I didn't even want to mention the grammar and the names (how difficult is it to remember that Russian female surnames end on "a" ?) !! And Russian grammar and names are not the only ones to "suffer" - even I know that in the majority of Asian surname/name combinations are the surname goes first!

Viggo (and the whole cast of Eastern Promises) were a single exception to the rule. I have such a respect for the guy.

hahahahahahaha!!!! This is so awesome.

[fivil.livejournal.com]

My language never get represented so never have to get upset by it. I can pick up when Korean or Hindi or Swedish are spoken like in a native-approximated manner but obviously I'm not native in any of them so can't really judge.

Aw, I want to see this film but I'm afraid the Finnish release date is waaaaay in the future, so much so I'll only get to see it after it's been overhyped by Oscars and crap.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Yes, I can with a good accuracy say when Korean or Japanese or Chinese doesn't sound right - there is definite music in each of these languages, and it is really noticeable when someone doesn't speak it well.

And yes, I do not like it when the things I like get over-hyped. This film looks like a very good candidate.

[smirnoffmule.livejournal.com]

Actually, I believe TTSS is a British film made by a Swedish director with French financial backing :) Don't think the US had a hand in it at all. I'm really glad it had that attention to detail though - I think it's really careless and offensive to overlook that kind of stuff, and particularly for this film, which ought to be all about small attention to detail. I haven't actually seen it yet, but the book is one of my favourite books of all time, and I love the BBC adaption. I was a bit reluctant to see it, actually, because I love the original enough to feel like I don't want to see it changed, and, as you say, Gary Oldman does just seem to play Gary Oldman all the time. It sounds like it stays pretty true to the spirit of the book from what you say, though. I will have to check it out.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Now you said it, I think this is the main reason for the film to be so .. different. The director indeed has nothing to do with USA of Britain. British spy movies and TV are just the same as USA ones as far as foreign cultures and languages are concerned, btw, if not worse (as UK also has a big history of enmity with some European countries like France). For example, Spooks, the recent British spy-related thing features Richard Armitage's "Russian" tattoos with Latin writing.

My husband was a fan of the original , and he seems to have loved the new version too. I haven't seen the BBC min-series, and neither have I read the book, but I thought the film was "well worthy".

[stacefaceex.livejournal.com]

I loved it! I love Gary Oldman and Mark Strong was awesome. Actually, the full cast are my favourite actors! I love them all. I totally shop Mark/Colin hahaha.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I ship them like no tomorrow. Now I need to prequel, I want to know everything about those two. I might even read the book (although their relationship might be quite different in the book)

[stacefaceex.livejournal.com]

Oh, me too! I need this in my life now!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I hope someone will write fanfiction or something. I should join TTSS communities.

[roboticduck.livejournal.com]

I can't wait til this comes to the US, most of the reviews have been stellar. Yay for accuracy to language!! Granted, I am so not fluent in French or German or Russian, etc, but if it's integral to the plot of the story (hello, spies!!) then HALLELUJAH that they got legit actors/accents for them.

Japanese people are always cast as Koreans (or Chinese) and vice versa. Mexican people are often cast as Spanish. Polish people are cast as Russians.
I would get mad at this, except it is sooo prevalent, that I almost forget to rage, haha ;D The thing with ethnicities and languages is that those without intimate knowledge of the specific culture (sometimes most of the audience) wouldn't care, buuuuut then the ones who *do* know, are all UGH AGAIN, until that special rare moment when they get it right!

TL;DR I want to stare at Gary Oldman and Benedict Cumberbatch!!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I usually don't really care for these things too, but I think mostly because this is such a common place that I am used not to care. But what happens quite often is that even though I don't care, these things break the world-building structure for me and I can't take film/Tv show seriously. So when I see people saying how serious Nikita is, for example, all I can to do is eye roll.

Benedict Cumberbatch is great in the film, and his is one of the bigger roles. Just saying. :D

[oresteia.livejournal.com]

One problem perhaps that I have with most English based films is the capitalistic market they play to.

I watched uh Forest of Bliss earlier this month and it is totally in Indian, what little dialogue it has. It's very- open and there's a point without a purpose. Meaning they director isn't selling you ideals or what they think you should get out of it (like Michael Moore or Robert Flahtery) but you see can be a number of things. I wish more were like that.

Same time, it's why I find Die Hard offensive. *shrugs* I can't kick Alan Rickman's ass, okay sure, he's Mr. sexy voice he should get a by but honestly terrible. Though I'm tolerant because other countries do make similar flubs.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Oh, that is one of my big bees in the bonnet too. I am all for democracy, but I do object to the point of view that is promoted in the Western media, namely, the fact that the USA/UK are always portrayed as the morally "right" and "the savior of the nations". In this sense, "Avatar" really really made me annoyed as it was all about good USA folks saving "savages".

Die Hard is one of the films I find to be so bad I can't even take it too seriously. Definitely not my cup of tea.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Have you ever seen the great miniseries of TTSS with Alec Guinness? It was one of the most fabulous tv epics of its day.

My husband always has the same complaint as you about movie Russian; I notice it especially with German (why does everyone in a film about Nazis have a fake German accent when they are all supposedly speaking German to each other anyway. And Indian accents are always so caricatured as well. I feel that British dramas do a better job in general, but fail miserably with American accents. Very few British actors can produce really GOOD American accents - even very fine actors on good shows.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen TTSS series, but my husband also told me many good things about it, so may be I will now. My only fear is that the old BBC mini-series were filmed ages ago , in the Cold War period, so stereotyping of Russians might be really bad. I can cope with the language "problems", but stereotyping does make me angry.

Oh, Nazi films and Nazis speaking in English with fake German accent? This doesn't make sense at all. 9And I want to know whose the bright idea was that)

My ear is not as well-trained yet to distinguish bad American accents, but I do find that the portrayal of USA people in UK series is often stereotyped. Which is another thing that drives me crazy - the stereotypes.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Well, first of all, LeCarre's books are VERY nuanced (and as I recollect the chief focus of the first Smiley book - it's a "trilogy" about Karla - was on the traitor in the midst of the British, not so much on vilifying the Soviets anyway.) LeCarre worked for MI-5 for many years before he became a novelist and he was very much interested in going against the "James Bond spies" stereotypes propagated by showing that one of the very best spies was this sort of unremarkable guy who happened to be incredibly smart and very dogged. I think the BBC was, at that time, if anything rather more pro-Russian than anything on American TV and I don't recollect there being a lot of Russians in it anyway (nor in the book. As I said, the book is more about the search for the traitor than some kind of "spy versus spy" thing - at least in my recollection, which is, I grant you a bit vague.) If you want to see another great dramatization of a LeCarre novel, Richard Burton in "The Spy Who Came In from the Cold" is also brilliant and the theme of both of these is very much that the "good" side (e.g. British) does just as cold and reprehensible things as the "bad side" (tne Russians and the East Germans.) In "The Spy Who Came in From the Cold" it ends up that Alec Leamas (Burton) is victimized by his own side as much as by the others.

Secondly, it's Alec Guinnes, one of the greatest actors of his generation, so just for that the series is worth seeing, but I also recollect that there was a starry collection of very great British actors, including Sian Phillips and Ian Richardson (these may be people from a different generation for you, perhaps? But they were amazing and many appeared also in the great "I Claudius.")

And lastly, because it was a miniseries, they had much more time to explore the nuances and subtleties of the novel than a two-hour movie, however good, can possibly do. This is one of the many reasons I have, for example, never had a desire to see the film of "State of Play" because the miniseries was so well-done.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you so much for the info! This is exactly how the film felt , so I am glad that the original bok and the old BBC series are like that too. I am definitely going to try to find them now.:D

Yes, I can see myself having a problem with watching new adaptations when the old ones are 100% perfect. I don't think I will "meet" another Pride and Prejudice adaptation I like. Not in my lifetime, anyways. Still, "Tinker, taylor.." was a very good film.

[lydzi.livejournal.com]

Can you believe this Alexandra? ONLY NEXT YEAR THIS MOVIE WILL ONLY COME HERE NEXT YEAR. WHY WHY WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? 8 february 2012... I can't with the time... and then they wonder why people are always ddling. GUH

But I'm glad you liked that movie. I'm so excited for it so it adds on the posiive enthuasiasm :p.

And IA about terrible accents sometimes. Usually for french it's allright though but when it's badly done it's reaaaaaaaaally bad lol.