Game of Thrones in Disney and other fairytales

[alexandral]

This is cross-posted: I have made this post for an ASOIF community.

Martin uses fairytales quite extensively, right? I don't want to mention the most obvious ones (like for example, how many times the Beauty and the Beast story crops up in the series? 3? More?) or the ones that I have already seen mentioned somewhere else (Jaime and Prince Charming from Shrek are long-lost twins), here are just a few:













This one I am particularly proud of. Some of the fairytale references in ASOIF are very Northern: the wolves, the Others, the wights. This is one of the aspects that interests me greatly.



I am re-thinking my feelings for Cersei after my recent re-read of "A Game of Thrones". First, we do not see her point of view at all in the first book and always see her from the eyes of someone else. Second, I have realised on this re-read that some of the things I thought her to be guilty of previously (Ned's death) are not her fault, at least not directly.

But regardless, I feel that Martin most definitely had The Queen from Snow White in mind when he was writing Cersei, all that stuff about "young and beautiful queen" is just so Snow White.






What do you think? Do you know any fairytale stories that you think might have influenced A Song of Ice and Fire series?

Comments

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I am re-thinking my feelings for Cersei after my recent re-read of "A Game of Thrones". First, we do not see her point of view at all in the first book and always see her from the eyes of someone else. Second, I have realised on this re-read that some of the things I thought her to be guilty of previously (ne'd death) are not her fault, at least not directly.


I'm so happy to read this :D (She IS a villainess, I won't argue that, but she's got a lot more going for her and is guilty of a lot fewer crimes than we're initially led to believe. Like, she and Jaime didn't poison Jon Arryn EITHER, even though we're led to assume that they did.

I love the idea of Prince Ivan (Ivan is even Jon or John!) and the Grey Wolf (isn't the grey wolf sometimes an actual human who helps Ivan?) and the dragons being firebirds. Awesome!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think I also realised what I dislike so much about Cersei (because I still do dislike her): it is the fact that she does not love Jaime the way I think he deserves. :P

I love the idea of Prince Ivan (Ivan is even Jon or John!) and the Grey Wolf (isn't the grey wolf sometimes an actual human who helps Ivan?) and the dragons being firebirds. Awesome!

I honestly think that Martin took some charcteristics of some of Russian and other Northers fairytales, for example the idea of wolves as companions is coming from there.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I think I also realised what I dislike so much about Cersei (because I still do dislike her): it is the fact that she does not love Jaime the way I think he deserves. :P

Heee! OK, so, I totally feel the same way, and it's hilarious, because you do realize that what we are asking is that his twin sister love him passionately :P AND if she did love him the way he deserved, and had been loving and kind to him about his hand, etc., etc., then of course, our OTHER 'ship for Jaime that we love passionately would not have any chance, because Jaime would never fall out of love with Cersei and (hopefully) fall IN love with Brienne :D But still, yes, I agree with you! How can she turn on Jaime like that? *sniffle*

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

You see, I think I am a minority as far as shipping goes. It does not bother me in a slightest to have 2 mutually contradicting ships, or 3. :D It is alike these ships exists in two alterna universes and both are good, you know? Usually I notice people getting really defensive about their shipping and I can't always get it.

I think I am also sooooooo probability girl, and a probability of one out of two ships to work out is higher than if you have just one. Like, if Cersei did love jaime , I would have probably shipped her with him.

I am not too worried by the fact that Cersei is Jaime's sister , not in ASOIF content, in the same way I am not bothered by some other things. But the fact that Cersei dos not understand what kind of a good thing she has got - this is so wrong!!!!!!!!!!

[intermezzo]

OMG, I didn't know that Sarah Connor Lena Headey was on GoT! She was SO badass on SCC and omg, that was one of the best scifi shows EVER. And of course, Fox axed it!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

She plays the Evil Queen!!! Well, nothing really is 100% black-and-white with the series, but the people who like her think she is great in the show.

[intermezzo]

I have no trouble believing that! She really is wonderful! Man, now I feel like rewatching SCC!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I quite liked SCC, but not terribly so, I was rooting for the Terminator girl.

[intermezzo]

Who, Cameron? Or the shape-shifter who was taking care of John Henry?

Man, I wish it hadn't been axed! For once there's a good scifi show that has terrific female characters and what do TPTB do? Cancel it! Ppfft. At least the finale made sense, but my god, it could have gone on for 3-4 more series and it would have been good. Instead, do kind of shows gets renewed these days? Jersey Shores.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Yes, Cameron. I kept shipping her with the main boy but for some reason the show didn't think the same way I did. :D

It was not 100% good for me, though.

[intermezzo]

Me too. But are you kidding? It was there from the beginning and it's hinted all throughout the series! Sure, there was the thing with Riley, whom Jesse brought back in time so that John wouldn't "get close to Cameron" (and omg how many hours have I spent thinking about future!John/Cameron) but Riley/John only reinforced the notion that John did and will always have feelings for Cameron. I mean, come on, the finale was as obvious as it could get! ^^ There's the whole touch her endoskeleton thing and John's face couldn't have been more expressive than that! Plus, he jumps forward in time just for her, to get her chip! What I wouldn't have given to watch more of that AU where Derek doesn't know John and Kyle is still alive and omfg head of the Resistance, but most of all, that Cameron Allison is still alive and alksjdlsd I would have wanted to see John wavering for her but ultimately realize he was into Terminator!Cameron instead. That would have been beautiful!

May I ask what didn't work for you?

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Agree with every word you said about John/cameron!!! EVERY WORD.

For me, the show didn't feel original enough. I have seen few Terminator films and this just feels as the same old.. It was good mind you, but for me it wasn't nothing to write home about.

[wildtiger7.livejournal.com]

Having just read a historical fiction book on the War of the Roses, it was nice to see where Martin got his inspiration for his characters from real people (the basis for Cersei is I think Elizabeth Woodville, Edward IV's queen), it's nice to see them linked to fantasy characters as well, because I know Martin also looked there for inspiration. I particularly liked the pairing of Ivan and the Firebird. I hadn't thought about that! Though I have been wondering what would happen when Jon and Dany meet.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Yes, the series is based on the war of roses, I have forgotten! Thank you for the info!

Though I have been wondering what would happen when Jon and Dany meet.

Knowing Martin, nothing will be straightforward. As soon as I think "I think the story is going this way!" the story takes an unexpected turn. Which is the most beautiful thing about the series!

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

Sansa & Sandor: Beauty & the Beast!
BTW, for Sansa on her own, as a Disney Princess (without her Hound/Beast), I would have said Giselle from Enchanted. They have the same hair, they see life as a fairytale, they do believe everyone is nice but they learn it's not the case ...

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Sansa/Sandor: I absolutely agree. I have seen it mentioned so many times that I think this is what Martin meant. He did say that he used to take a part in writing for "Beauty and the beast" TV series. This is why it is one of his favourite themes, which he, I believe used for Sansa/Tyrion and Jaime/Brienne.

Giselle is such an awesome comparison, yes, the initial naivety and the later realisation that the world is NOT LIKE THAT. Yes.

[trailer-spot.livejournal.com]

Lena Headey is blonde in that series? Ridiculous! ;)

Happy Birthday! I hope you had a wonderful day with your family. :)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not start me on Lena's wig. She is such a gorgeous woman (usually :D), but the wig is so OBVIOUS and also so does not fit with her colouring!!

BTW, I think you can like these series. Something tells me so. :D

[trailer-spot.livejournal.com]

I don't think I can ever watch a series that makes Lena Headey wear a blonde wig. ;)

One suprising name I found on the cast list of GoT is that of German(-Turkish) actress Sibel Kekilli. Her character is listed as Shae. I'm not entirely sure, is she one you made smiling, animated icons of?

On a different topic. Last Friday I saw Korean movie "The Housemaid" here at the movie theatre. It turned you to be a different movie than I expected. Did you ever have a chance to see it?

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I sort of got used to the wig, but not fully. I am a wig-hater. :D

Yes, Sibel Kekilli plays Shae , one of the secondary charcters (this show is big on well-thought-through secondary characters). I adore her.

yes, I saw The Housemaid. What did you think?

[trailer-spot.livejournal.com]

It's not really important but if there will ever be an episode in which Kekilli plays a bigger part and you remember to do so, please let me know.

As mentioned it turned out to be a different movie than I expected. For a long time I was expecting the maid to finally hit back. I didn't care who would "win" in the end but I was looking for more of a fight. I thought there would be more (revenge) thriller elements and it turned out to be mostly social commentary that the rich can get away with anything. Which wasn't very pleasant to watch (even if it might be true). It can be argued that maybe she at least opened the eyes of the kid with her sacrifice but since it already witnessed her fall off the ladder it already knew her family were bad people.
It was still very gorgeous to look at but I was a little disappointed by the story. What was nice was that I was able to see it at a movie theatre, even if it took a while.

What are your thoughts?

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Kekilli appeared in the episode 9 of the season 1 and I think she had quite a big scene there. :D But I will keep you posted!


Yes, I thought the same - i was expecting the housemaid to go on the revenge path. From what I have heard, the original movie was different (although I am not sure how).

[bond-girl.livejournal.com]

Jon and Dany! Жар-птица! This is genius and my little shipper heart beats happily :))

As I lived in fandom vacuum before the beginning of the show, I was really surprised at just how other people also ship these two.

I think that in book four, I realized that Cersei wasn't an evil mastermind and that she was scrambling as much as everyone else to keep her ducks in a row. So I felt pity for her instead of the previous intense dislike. Strangely, the thing I mind the most about her is how she actively hates everyone else in the world but her own and even then, she disowns even members of her family if she perceives them as weak. Like Tyrion, or later, Jaime. She is driven by power to an extent that I find extremely off-putting in a man or a woman.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I was really proud of that one. :D

Hee! ASOIF-the-books was my second fandom on LJ (after Battlestar Galactica - the fandom that got me here). I met some of my best LJ friends through it. The activily in ASOIF fandom calmed down for a while but now my favourite fandom is back again.!

I shipped Dany and Jon longer than I shipped anyone else in ASOIF. I had the idea about Jon's parentage from the first pages of the book and immediately thought: Dany+Jon+dragons. ** laughs ** Gosh, this was so long ago!

And yes about Cersei. I think I realised only recently what do I hate so much about Cersei: it is the fact that she doesn't love Jaime (who totally deserves it) and doesn't care for Tyrion 9who is also awesome).